Mold, Mycotoxins, & EMF: The Undeniable Connection | Jennifer Nitrio

00:00 - Jennifer (Guest)

But it was really interesting to me to learn about this EMF, mold and mycotoxin connection because it changed the game in a huge way and I mean I really developed a much deeper understanding of why indoor mold has become the problem that it has become.

00:18 - Michaela (Host)

Welcome to the Wave Forward, the podcast that dives deep into how technology shapes our health and well-being. From digital wellness to tech innovation, to the effects of electromagnetic fields, we cover the environmental, social and physical implications of technology. Ready to navigate the digital landscape with confidence, set your dial to discovery and tune in. You're listening to the Wave Forward, Jennifer Nitrio. Thank you so much for joining the podcast.

00:48 - Jennifer (Guest)

Absolutely Great to be here.

00:49 - Michaela (Host)

Let's start with just a little bit about you and your background, because I always love kind of getting the history of how people ended up where they are.

00:57 - Jennifer (Guest)

Absolutely so I was born…no, just kidding, but actually it kind of does come into play because literally I got brought home from the hospital and our basement flooded and so it's kind of like I started this whole journey literally as an infant, where I was just an attractor of water and I didn't really obviously know until adulthood you know what that really meant. Until adulthood you know what that really meant. And so previously, you know, to my big mold exposure that really launched my career and everything that I've done since then, you know I wasn't really mold savvy. I had definitely been living in some very old homes. There definitely were mold issues, but you know, you weren't really you weren't exposed to this idea that mold is a bad thing. It's just kind of like oh yeah, you know well, whatever, spray some bleach on it, which we now know is like the worst thing that you can possibly do. So it wasn't until I moved into my what is affectionately now known as the “moldy house” that I started to have very, very bizarre health issues, and these all coincided with me having my daughter. So of course everything gets blamed on hormones when you're a new mother and your system isn't working right, but when it's coupled with your daughter being born with issues that they can't figure out and like some pretty significant, strange, rare things that just didn't have an explanation, you know, you just kind of start to wonder like, well, what, what is going on? So we lived at the time in an area. It was an agricultural area and we were basically on the downhill slope. So even though in California when we would have droughts, we constantly had agricultural runoff. So you know, my brain is just kind of like we're getting exposed to things I don't like because of that. You know pesticides and all kinds of you know fertilizers and things like that. So you kind of write off weird stuff just with okay, you know what it's our area's environmental exposure.

02:58

And I was already a pretty natural living type person. So I wasn't using chemicals in the home. You know, try to eat as clean as possible. But despite all of that I just kept getting sicker and sicker and stranger things. And you know the doctor I mean, I'm a big naturopathic type person but I kind of became this medical mystery and it got to the point that I was going to the ER really regularly having heart attacks, except I was not having heart attacks and so you know it. Just all these things kind of compound. Well, I knew I knew more about mold because I had been in this natural living circle. I was doing ghostwriting for a lot of different natural health practitioners, so I was starting to learn more and more about mold, got connected with a couple of people who had been on this mold journey themselves and the light still didn't quite come on for me.

03:52

But you know, long story short, my daughter had had hernia surgery and she was recovering on the couch and we had a cat at the time who came out from behind the couch and jumped up on her and she just like pushed him away and said, oh mom, he smells so bad, so I go and grab them. And I'm like now he never came from behind the couch before, like that was not his hiding spot, it was just. You know, it was very odd that he came from there, but he smelled like mold and I'm like, what in the world did you get into? So I pulled the couch away and the smell that came up was, I mean, knocked my daughter and I out. Just I mean, it was so obnoxious and I'm like what in the world? So I'm feeling the carpet and I'm like why is the carpet damp under here?

04:44 - Michaela (Host)

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05:01

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05:51 - Jennifer (Guest)

And then it was just the floodgates of knowledge opened and I'm like mold, oh my gosh, mold, we have mold. So I was really really fortunate to have the late Dr Jack Drasher live literally one block directly behind me and he was the nation's leading toxicologist at that time and really a pioneer in the studies of mold and mycotoxins. So I got in touch with him immediately. He was at my house in like 20 minutes and my walls, floor to ceiling, were saturated. I mean a hundred percent saturation floor to ceiling.

06:29

But the weird thing is we had no visible mold whatsoever. But then all these things started kind of flooding in like oh, there was the time that I moved that and that felt damp and I thought that was kind of strange and figured maybe my daughter had spilled something. So all these little pieces of information start dumping in. And then Dr. Thrasher is showing me that it wasn't my baseboards being painted a tan color, that was water staining, wow, and I just I mean you talk about mind blown. So he does all kinds of tests on the home, he does tests on me and basically after everything came back he said get out right now and don't take anything.

07:08 - Michaela (Host)

Huh.

07:10 - Jennifer (Guest)

Yeah, you know, what do you? What do you mean? Get out right now. So everything that happened from that point forward is really what spurred me.

07:20

Once I kind of got my life resettled, I moved to Arizona with my daughter and you know I said I really don't want anybody to ever have to go through what we went through because there's no reason for it. There's, you know, a lot of ways that we can prevent mold. There's a lot of ways we can understand what's happening. But, more importantly, when you're really, really sick and you're being dismissed and you don't have visible mold, you know what? What can I do? How can I help people so they don't have to go through something this, this significant? So that is what spurred me forward and I was very fortunate.

07:53

I mean I went through all the regular channels to become a certified mold inspector.

07:57

I've done a lot of additional training in terms of remediation. I do a lot of training with the companies that produce specific products too, so I can become as close to an expert into you know, the proper use of those. So I really have a lot of tools to give people to find the best solution. But I had Dr Jack Thrasher and that was the biggest, most valuable resource, because I essentially became a mycotoxin expert when I didn't even know what a mycotoxin was, prior to all of this happening. Everybody hears about mold, but you don't hear about mycotoxins, and that's really where the game changes. And so I was so fortunate to get that knowledge and just, I mean, dive into everything he'd ever done in terms of research and studies, and my family actually became a case study for him, because our levels of the, specifically the mycotoxin tricotazine, were so off the charts high for not having visible mold that it was a rarity to see something like that, and it was a rarity that we were basically still alive and functioning.

09:02

I mean while he's functioning loosely, you know, yeah, so anyway, that's the very abbreviated.

09:07 - Michaela (Host)

Yeah, it's really interesting because I feel like mold is such a huge conversation now but it was like where was this conversation decades ago, you know, like it didn't seem like that was ever a thing, but it also seems like it's more prevalent. There’s a lot of conversations. I've actually been listening to a lot of podcasts where people have very different ideas about mold. Some people think like, oh well, we've been dealing with mold forever. So you know it's, it's not that big of a deal and like all of that.

09:40

But I feel like it's become such a big issue because mold kind of like exacerbates - I can never say that word right - but every other thing that's going on. So it's like, yeah, well, we've also like every other toxin, we've just been growing our families and our children in this like toxic load, and then mold comes along and like just kind of pushes everything. I was talking to Dr Jill Carnahan. So this is a great segue into this conversation because I learned a lot from her. But she was basically talking about that toxic overload and how we can have all of these different viruses like Lyme disease and all these things that are just kind of laying dormant, like a lot of people have them, but then when they get exposed to mold, everything kind of kick starts and all of these things that we had laying dormant from like a small child comes into play, and so then people start to look like they are like hypochondriacs, because, yes, we had a mold issue in our previous home and it was just one of those things that it was like no one really took it seriously.

10:51

I took my kids to the doctor and they were basically like, oh, you don't want to get mold testing because your insurance doesn't cover it, and like all the things. So we ended up having to go to a chiropractor to get my son tested. And we only got my son tested because my son had lived in the house his whole life, so we knew that if his level was high, everyone's levels were going to be high, and so his levels were like off the charts. But we actually don't know the type of mold. So do you know the different types of I feel like that's a really good place to start -like what are the tests, what are the best tests? And like what are you really looking for?

11:26 - Jennifer (Guest)

Absolutely so. When it comes to remediation, we'll just kind of skip ahead to that and then backtrack. Okay, it does not matter what the type of mold is. So if you know you have a mold issue, we're going to go about remediating in a pretty systematic way to make sure that we're getting everything out of the home. Different companies have different approaches, some better than others. Nobody remediates for mycotoxins, and that's the bigger issue. So that's where it becomes important to A know your molds, but B also know your mycotoxins.

12:01 - Michaela (Host)

Okay, so explain that.

12:03 - Jennifer (Guest)

So if you've been experiencing a lot of health issues, or even if they're kind of minor but like unique to you, you know I don't get I don't get seasonal allergies all of a sudden now I'm reactive to everything. So you know if it's something, because you know your body, if you're a parent, you know your children, you know the kinds of things that they typically do, you know we all have kind of those weak spots in our system. Some of us get pox easier and things like that. So you know, really paying attention to those things, and it becomes important to know the types of mold and then the mycotoxins when it comes to getting your actual self cared for. We can assume, if you've had water damage, that you have a mycotoxin producing mold. So let's kind of start with that. So there are allergenic molds and those are going to be the molds that most everybody on this planet is going to have kind of more of that respiratory type response to. So you know you might notice your eyes are a little bit more watery, you're sneezing a little bit more. So those molds are more just kind of the allergenic response. Not that they're not harmful, it's still not good to have. I mean, mold should be outside. That's its place and purpose, not inside. And so you know that kind of mold, though, for most people, is the one that they miss. You know they're just blaming it on something else. But then there's the molds that are the toxigenic molds, and these are the molds where you're seeing neurological type issues. You're seeing a lot of systemic infections that you can't clear because your body's defenses have really been compromised. You're seeing organ issues, whether that's functionality or actual damage, because your organs can't detoxify this, and that's compounded by the HLA-DR genetic mutation that some people have. They literally cannot detox mold from their system and then you have just complete immune suppression.

13:55

So these toxigenic molds how they work is they produce a byproduct when they feel threatened, and by threatened I mean for space. So there could be competing species of mold all in an area and the best mold wants to win. They could be competing for food. It could be the same one single species of mold that is competing for food, so it's growing prolifically and there's just not enough of a food source for it. It could be feeling threatened because somebody came in and poked a hole in the wall to send a camera in to see if there's mold in the wall. Now you've disturbed it.

14:33

So anytime a toxigenic mold feels threatened, it will produce mycotoxins. So the mycotoxin is the chemical byproduct that protects the mold and that is really what is going to do the most harm to human health and for a lot of people, depending on the length of exposure and either the number of mycotoxins they're exposed to, the specific types I mean, these can be life-threatening and life-altering because some of the damage can't be undone or can't be undone easily. So it's very important to understand the mycotoxin picture in your home because that, ultimately, is what you need to address in terms of your health and being able to properly remediate your home. I, anybody I work with you know most or I shouldn't say not anybody, but most everybody I work with that comes to me that's gone through a remediation process is still sick and they can't understand why. And I said well, because nobody did anything about the mycotoxins and so, unlike mold, that sort of has a shelf life, and we know okay, under these conditions mold becomes dormant and it's not that dormant mold is not responsible for any sort of you know, harm to human health, because it is. But most people, just you know they're like oh okay, well, we, you know we sprayed the mold with this, and so now it's not active anymore.

16:02

Mycotoxins don't work the same way. They don't just suddenly go to sleep because there's nothing for them to do. So they can live in your environment and it's kind of weird to think of a chemical as living but they can live in your environment for decades, the absolute decades and continue to harm your health. Now, mycotoxins don't reproduce on their own. Mold has to produce the mycotoxins, so you can get rid of the mold. If you don't get rid of the mycotoxins, though, again, they're still causing harm.

16:31 - Michaela (Host)

So once they've been produced by the mold, they can continue to replicate, or they do not replicate on their own? So just what's there after the mold's gone, it will continue to be there?

16:46 - Jennifer (Guest)

Yes, and unlike mold, you know, mold spores either are where they are in terms of active mold growth, and they're growing and they're stuck to whatever they're growing on, or they're dormant. They're lightweight now. They fly around in dust, pet dander, people dander, I mean all of that stuff. They move around like that. Mycotoxins don't necessarily do that, and so mycotoxins typically, I mean there is some movement but they typically land and stay put. And that's why you know, if a person has an issue and let's say it's a fairly significant issue in a bathroom, you have to get the bathroom, maybe replace some of the studs. You know they're thinking, okay, well, the issue was in here, so, all right, I did a couple tests around my house. The rest of my house looks okay, it doesn't look like there was a lot of cross-contamination, but the mycotoxins could still be in little places. That you would never think. You know because, oh well, we removed all of this. And testing, you know, down the hall isn't going to necessarily tell you okay, there's this mycotoxin problem that you know resulted from here.

17:52

So when you're looking at mold tests, there's a lot of different ways to do that. You have some like what I like to call the quick and dirty test If you think you're being exposed to mold but you don't have visible mold. Literally it's the Petri dish method and you're putting these around your house, you're leaving them for an hour with your normal airflow. You can culture them yourself. You kind of peek at them in five days to see if they're growing anything. If not, check again in seven. And then I look at the number of colonies, the size of the colonies and I've gotten pretty good at recognizing certain molds and so kind of doing just a spot check to see, okay, what's floating around in the air.

18:32

Air tests, the professional air tests, where you use a cassette and get a sample, those are another tool of the trade but unfortunately they've kind of become the standard that okay, we do this air test and if it doesn't show anything you don't have a problem. That's not necessarily true, because it's a very, very, very short snapshot and oftentimes it's being compared to what's going on in the outdoors because you want to see, is the outdoor level, you know, sky high with something? Does that match a sky high level in your house? Okay, yes, it does. Oh, you don't have a mold problem that's coming in from the outside. But that's not necessarily true. So, um, so I tell people, don't necessarily jump to that cassette test like do this. They're like $3 each. I mean it's a super cheap way to get a picture of what's going on through the whole house. From there you know you can say, okay, now I need to actually bring in a mold inspector to do additional testing, or maybe I'm still going to do some do it yourself type testing.

19:32

There are dust tests. So you know, either you know people can go and do it themselves, you can bring somebody in. I'm very picky about how I collect dust and so I have a process for people because I want a very accurate picture of what's going on, and a lot of people make mistakes. They'll take samples by a front door, they'll take samples by a window. Well, you have natural movement of mold spores coming in and out of windows and doors. So you know you really want to be understanding of where to take these tests so you get the correct picture.

20:10

A dust test is also how we look for mycotoxins, although there is a new technology that's come out with a cassette sample for mycotoxins and I'm really anxious to get my hands on this and try it because you know I want to see how, how that's working. I have to find a loaded place. It's like okay, what do I do? Put this out on, like craigslist, “Hey, looking for somebody with a mold contaminated home. Yeah, I'll do free mycotoxin testing.” So there's this new technology that I'm really curious to see. You know it works similarly to an air cassette sample for mold.

20:40

So I'll be curious, but looking at the dust test, that can give you a couple of different views, depending on how you do it. It can give you a historical view that kind of looks back at historical dust to see what has been in your home and continues to be in your home. Or you can do it where you're looking at what has happened in a two-week time period. So, again, depending on a specific situation, if you have visible mold, I wouldn't ever waste money on a dust test because you have visible mold. So you know you have a problem. Let's see how far it's traveled, though.

21:15 - Michaela (Host)

Yeah, we had an issue because we did find mold in our closet, it was not remediated well, and they did the Petri dishes and everything was coming back okay on the Petri dishes. So, it was like, okay, well, everything's good. And then our issues continued and I was like no, it's still here, I can feel it, it's still here. Is black mold considered a mycotoxin or?

21:54 - Jennifer (Guest)

That would be a mycotoxin producing mold.

21:58 - Michaela (Host)

Jill was saying like all of the what, what really matters to your health? A lot like what? Like the most intense stuff is going to be found in dust and it's not going to be just like floating in the air. And I'm like, oh, exactly.

22:10 - Jennifer (Guest)

Well, and that's true because every mold has a different weight to it. So stachybotrys, which is kind of the dreaded black mold - it's not the only black mold, but that's the dreaded black mold - that is a very, very heavy mold, and if I ever catch that in an air sample, even one molds, for that is a huge problem because it moved and it doesn't often move, though. The only time you'll really see movement is like if I come in to do testing for somebody and they have just knocked out a portion of the wall because they knew that they had mold behind it that just scattered everything everywhere. So, yes, then I will oftentimes catch everything under the sun, you know, in that sample, just because you just released 200,000 spores into your living room, kind of thing, but without that happening, yes, you know, there are some molds that are very heavy and are tough to catch in a traditional air sample type environment. So that's why I like to use a lot of tools. You know, a mold inspector will sometimes drill a small hole into the wall. We can take core samples where we can actually test some of your drywall to see. You know, you can literally cut a small square out too, and you know, test it that way. But again, releasing mold spores even with a small cut, you know you're putting a home at risk. You can send a camera in. That can be a little tricky, depending on the age of the home too. I'm never going to rely on this camera and say, oh, that spot for sure is mold. But I do love core sampling if somebody has a really strong suspicion of a mold issue but we can't find it. There's no signs of water damage. You know, the petri dish or the air samples aren't coming back looking horrible, but they feel a certain way when they're in a space. That's when I love to do some core sampling and see if we can catch this somewhere.

24:00

You know, knowing, okay, and a lot of times you know when it's a lot of investigation for a mold inspector. I have to go up on a roof. Okay, you're telling me you feel sick in this room? Great, okay, let me go up on the roof. Roof looks great. I don't see water coming in. Can I get into your attic? Okay, let's go in above. Oh, actually, look what we have here, you know?

24:22

So for some people, especially when it's a hidden issue. You really do have to have a trained inspector come in because you know we see little details. And I've come in after a homeowner has done their own inspection and I'll walk into a room and say, oh okay, well, do you have any idea what happened right there? Oh, I didn't even see that.

24:40

So again, there is value in having a trained eye when you are doing certain tests, not getting the information the ERMI test, which is, or it can also be, a Hertzman, which are types of dust tests people oftentimes do themselves and then go into a complete panic about it or because they didn't do it right. You know they're not getting anything and they're like but I know it's an issue, so it's. It's a real slippery slope. I really like to have a lot of different testing options so we can really really figure out for somebody what's going on. Then again you know there's the - Okay, if you have these molds, we don't need to do a mycotoxin test. We know you have mycotoxins. If you have these molds, there's no chance on this planet that they didn't at some point release mycotoxins and so let's just treat for mycotoxins, let's just figure out the best game plan here and move forward with that.

25:32 - Michaela (Host)

Okay, this is so interesting, I'm like, because I can talk about mold forever, yeah, but it's like a really scary thing, cause it's also very costly. And then it's like okay, well, is your home ever safe? Or is it like, are you finding mold in every home that you're going in? Is it everywhere? Yeah, so, like, you know, at what point do you have to balance? You know, how do you balance that fear with, like, okay, well, we know that mold is everywhere. You know what I'm saying? Like, where's that boundary?

26:05 - Jennifer (Guest)

Yeah, and that's what I talk about. You know, I kind of became a counselor too for a lot of my clients, because I went through it myself. I tried to become mold perfect. I was schooled over and over again. I could not.

26:19

I mean, I moved 10 times in the first year after I left my house. I could not find a safe space. And you know it's tricky because you have sick people, you have mold sick people and they have to get to the most pristine environment that they can in order to start the healing process. You can put a bandaid on things while you're living in mold, but you can't heal. It's impossible. So how do you go, find someplace you can feel healthy and heal in? And that is so individual, because we all have our tolerance and we all have the things in our system that are going wrong. And you know, for a lot of people that means they go tent camp for six months because that's where they're feeling safest and that's where they're feeling the healthiest. Other people find a very safe room in a motel that works for them.

27:08

I mean, I spent plenty of time in motels myself and so you know, a lot of times it's just figuring out where I can get to. That's good enough right now that I can actually do some healing before I go try to find a longer term place to live, or maybe that turns into the longer term place. But you know. It is hard. We have to learn how to become our own investigators. We have to really learn how to become advocates with property management companies and landlords and you know there's more and more clauses in rental agreements now related to mold and basically limiting the liability that you're responsible for it.

27:48

I mean, you know they don't want to have to pay for this because, honestly, I mean, that's, that's expensive, they don't want to know about it, you know, and so even getting a landlord to agree to letting you do testing beforehand. The second you say that to a landlord or property management company, they're like nope, we're not renting to you because we don't want to know that there's a mold problem. It is very tough to find a safe home.

28:24

But I actually lost my home a few years ago during a really violent storm. We got hit by what they call microbursts here in Arizona. That's BS. It's just basically a tornado that doesn't actually touch the ground, so my house got destroyed and I had to completely rebuild it. So at this exact moment I feel really confident about my house because I oversaw the entire process, but I can't tell you how many pieces of wood I had to make them replace. I'm like you've got to be kidding. This is full of mold. Why did you put this up? What are you doing? And the contractor? Well, no, we'll just encapsulate that. Ah, no, no, no, no, don't. No, no, no, no, no.

29:01

But as you work with me. Thank you, nope, start over. And I mean I was so paranoid watching the house get built. But when you really watch how homes are constructed, apartment buildings are constructed, they come in with moldy wood, they sit and languish in bad weather and nobody's doing anything to protect them, depending on the type of the wood. So here in Arizona we are only allowed to use one type of wood and thank goodness it's the best way to prevent mold on wood. It still happens, obviously, but other parts of the country, you know, they don't have regulations around that. So they can come in with really green, raw, wet wood and then they're slapping drywall right up on it. So even a new build can end up with a mold issue pretty quickly. So again, it's prevention, prevention, prevention. It's being a good tenant or homeowner and it just I mean people get kind of lazy about it, but every month have your checklist and go check all these things.

30:00 - Michaela (Host)

Yeah, okay. So what is that Like? What does prevention look like?

30:05 - Jennifer (Guest)

So obviously - leaks. That's a big one, and there's a lot of ways that you can get alerts about those the second that they happen. So if you're a homeowner, for literally $300, you can put a monitoring system on your plumbing and it will tell you if there's unusual water flow. I mean, you know, I left a garden hose on absentmindedly and it shut my water off five minutes later because it's like something's wrong. This is not normal water usage.

30:30 - Michaela (Host)

Wow, I appreciate that.

30:32 - Jennifer (Guest)

I mean that's not convenient when you're in the shower.

30:35 - Michaela (Host)

Right.

30:39 - Jennifer (Guest)

Yes, so you know that. I mean it's a very cheap, easy thing to do. If you do not have the ability to put a whole house-wide plumbing monitor on, you can use water leak detectors and sensors in areas where there's plumbing would eventually come through. But you know, if you have a pipe under a sink but it's going around, it's looking under your sinks, you know, constantly checking for those. Um, it's also people don't realize you have to look down. People look up because you're looking for water leaks coming from your roof. But also look down and look for any changes at your baseboards. Um, you know, do you have any areas where you're like, oh, the carpet feels a little bit colder here than usual. Why would that be? I always suggest everybody gets thermal imaging. There is zero reason. Flur has an awesome little device that goes right onto your cell phone. It can go on an iPhone, it can go on an Android. They're about $300. And you can turn your phone into a thermal imaging device. I mean, you know these are things that upfront, people are like I don't want to spend $300. You're going to use this for 15 years. I mean, you know the technology is going to be the same. This is a great investment.

31:59

After it rains all around, look at your ceilings. Is there a change in the heat pattern? And you have to really kind of know your house too, because you have to know areas that are cooler and warmer. You know, by nature. But, having those tools, having moisture meters, you know being able to go around with a moisture meter, you can get one for 30 bucks. So, checking your walls and again, just being diligent about these kind of things, checking around windows, does the caulking need to be replaced? Or you, you know homes breathe, they expand, they contract. So you know it's not unusual to see cracking around a window. Yeah, I mean that, even my house. Two months afterwards, because there was such a drastic temperature shift, all of a sudden I'm like, oh, nothing's caulked anymore, okay, so you know, that's, that's the thing. But you know, people, I think, get a little bit complacent and just feel like oh, okay.

32:53 - Michaela (Host)

So if you catch water damage, like as soon as it happens, there are ways of making sure? Or is it like if there's water damage at all, you have mold?

33:04 - Jennifer (Guest)

So that depends on whether you have mold spores. So you have to have mold spores in order to have mold. It's why most people don't end up with a moldy shower the day after they take a shower, because if you're keeping things relatively clean, then, yeah, you're not going to end up with this massive mold issue. But if you never clean your shower, eventually an airborne something's going to float in there. So if you don't have mold spores and you get it dried out within the first 24 hours, you likely will not develop a mold issue.

33:35

The longer you wait to dry something out, the more likely you are to develop something. Because, let's face it, all of us have a rogue mold spore from something somewhere and especially if you've had a previous mold issue, maybe it wasn't remediated properly, maybe they didn't do anything related to cross-contamination People, especially in high humidity areas, the ductwork, hvac breeding ground and that just is getting spewed all over your house. So, really, as fast as you can get something taken care of, the better, and professionally. I mean putting some fans on a major situation and hoping that's going to do it. No, you need the heavy duty dehumidifiers, you need the air scrubbers, you need the heat, you need the negative air pressure. I mean, you need the things that a professional company can bring in and do. And you know, unfortunately a lot of people think, oh, I can dry this out myself and it will be fine. And that's normally where we see an issue get set up because they couldn't do it properly, they didn't have the proper tools.

34:37 - Michaela (Host)

Yeah, so the house that we just bought, that we moved into the the people that we bought it from said that they had a plumbing issue and that the half of the house basically flooded, but that, like same day, people came they ripped up all the flooring, they did their whole drying system, but they also ended up having them take out half of the walls because they didn't want the moisture to like. Yeah, so I was like, okay, well, hopefully, yeah, cause when she said water damage, I was like, no, we're moving to another. But what's interesting - and I was talking to Dr Jill about this yesterday - is we seem to kind of get sicker for a little bit after we moved out and into a new environment because, also, like, even though we moved kind of close, we were in a completely different terrain. Like we, it was all new types of trees and grasses and all the things.

35:30

My kids started having crazy allergies, like my, my youngest was just constantly draining for like four weeks straight and she was like, yeah, that's because your immune system was completely turned off. And then, like, once you're out of it and your body starts to like that bucket starts to go down, just enough, your immune system kickstarts and you start realizing all of the different sensitivities you've had. I'm like, oh my goodness. But it's also a little relieving, cause it's like, okay, we're healing, even though it's like you know we're going through this process. So we've been just doing everything we can to help him through that process. But like, so what does that look like? So are you helping people also physically? Are you mostly on the side of like remediation and like home?

36:12 - Jennifer (Guest)

So I mean, I am not a medical practitioner, so I'm very careful with how I assist people. I share my experience. What worked when it stopped working, what worked next, what I've learned since then you know all the things that have happened with additional exposure, how I keep myself safe because I'm a mold inspector. The last thing I want to do is go somewhere and compromise. Yeah, that's quite the job. I know everyone's like that is a very strange profession and I'm like well, you know, I honestly would rather be on the mold prevention side and only do mold prevention, but we're not there yet.

36:49 - Michaela (Host)

It's just like the nature of human beings to not be interested in anything until they're sick. It's a crisis, yeah.

36:59 - Jennifer (Guest)

And so I can share a lot of experiences with the people that I work with too. Um, you know, because I'm always trying to find other resources for people in different areas, like, oh, this person that I worked with, you know, saw this doctor and had amazing results. But, you know, I think the biggest thing, I try to get people to really wrap their brain around, because this is the hardest part and you touched on it. You leave the mold and you feel worse and you don't understand. And we have to remember, our systems have bandwidth and we can't heal all the things all at one time. Our systems, it's impossible to do that. And unfortunately, you know, there's, there's a lot of practitioners with their protocols where they're throwing so much at somebody saying we're going to just get everything all at once. You, you can't do that, it's impossible. I mean, you know we can even do a quick internet search with misinformation and you'll still figure out like it is impossible for the body to heal itself all at the same time. And so there's kind of the beginning of okay, let's try to start grabbing some stuff and getting it out of your system. So there's a lot to be said for binders and using things that can really start sopping up some of this excess stuff that your body isn't really wanting to let go of on its own. And you know, then, once you kind of get to a certain point, then you can really start targeting the things that weren't operating properly within your system.

38:26

But sometimes what you think needs to be healed first is not what your body thinks needs to be healed first. So you start doing work on something and you're like I'm three months in and I'm not, I'm making no progress. Okay, talk to your practitioner. Maybe you need to switch to a different body system. You know, maybe it's time to say okay, you know what? Yeah, I know that I was getting, you know, a lot of issues here in terms of, like, let's just say, gut health, but maybe my gut's not ready, maybe I have to go do this other thing first. Like, my circulation is a mess. Okay, let's look at microcirculation. What are some of the things that we can do? Because it and that's a lot of times. You know I'll hint to people like hey, microcirculation, you have got to get your circulatory system moving, because that's what allows all the organs to start pushing things out, and so you know if you're stagnant and feeling like you're not healing, it's never be afraid to discuss with a practitioner like yeah, this isn't working.

39:23 - Michaela (Host)

Yeah, Cause the mycotoxins are like they're settling in your muscles and stuff, Right? Dr. Joe was saying like you know, like dry brushing, like getting your like lymphs and muscles and everything moving, because everything's just like lodged. I'm like oh, Movement.

39:42 - Jennifer (Guest)

You know that's the hardest thing. When people are so mold sick, the last thing we want to do is unplant ourselves from the couch. But moving and gentle moving, you know that's a thing, everybody. You know a lot of people who have mold sickness. They've either lost a ton of weight because they're not absorbing nutrients no matter what they eat, or they've gained a lot of weight because inflammation has gone haywire. And you know a lot of people who are on the side of I've gained a lot of weight like, oh, I got to start, you know, like lifting intense weights. I have to do all of this cardio. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. That backfires. And same with the person who is say, you know, on the lower end of the weight scale has lost a lot of weight. They're thinking I shouldn't do anything because you know I don't want to lose more weight. And you know it's very gentle. There's a lot of exercise programs out there that are like metabolic type exercises. They're very, very gentle on the system.

40:41

All you can do is stretch every day. And you know, get on youtube and find a gentle beginner stretching, not even like yoga, just just true stretching, just get the body moving. And it needs to be a very slow progression. You can't tax it with intense exercise when you're trying to heal, because what do we do during exercise? We break muscle, we stretch tendons, we're creating scar tissue. We don't need to do more of that kind of thing, and so you know, I think a lot of people also kind of go the do it yourself route and they look online and you know okay, we'll do this, we'll do that, we'll go take saunas every day.

41:19

Not everybody can go take saunas every day. It's not. You know, it's not going to work for everybody and it can make them sicker. And people have to remember too if you have mold in your system and it amazes me that so many people gloss over sinuses. It's like, well, I don't have any sinus problems. You have mold spores that have colonized in your sinuses. What does mold do on your wall? It releases mycotoxins. What does mold do in your sinuses? It releases mycotoxins. Your body is producing mycotoxins. We're eating things with mycotoxins, I mean, you know. And so it's making sure you're not skipping some of the very important steps on the front end, because it will just end up being a continuous loop and, trust me, nobody loves doing sinus rinses four times a day.

42:00 - Michaela (Host)

Yeah, yeah, sinuses is where all my issues, literally my entire health journey started with chronic sinus infections as a kid, and so I know what that's like. But that's exactly when I knew something was off, because we were pretty like you know I've been on this journey for a long time so like when we all started just like crashing out of nowhere. It was like, okay, what is happening? Literally, and um, I started getting those chronic infections again and I was like, okay, something is not right here, like something is going on. And it is so hard when, when people don't take it seriously because it's just been such a kind of taboo topic for so long, you know, oh yeah.

42:42 - Jennifer (Guest)

And you never know what is going to trigger something, even years later. I mean I left my moldy house and I had a decent period of healing. I got to Arizona in April of 15. I never felt better after I got here. I mean it was just. It was amazing. I had for years and years and years felt horrible and had all these things going wrong.

43:11 - Jennifer (Guest)

I was at this stage where it was like, oh my gosh, there's light at the end of the tunnel and some of these issues my daughter had just like, just from getting out of that environment cleared. And that will happen for some people, you know certain things will get better, but then something happens. And that's where you get schooled that your system is not okay and you know, like I just this year in April I got COVID for the first time and I shouldn't have bragged that you know, oh, I've avoided it this whole time and I always thought you know what, I know how to handle it, I'll be fine.

43:44

Six weeks Wow, it laid me out for six weeks. I have never been so sick. I'm like what? And, oh my gosh, I'm well between my age, but also just okay, that's right, my body's not perfect. You know it it had gone through a lot. It's had a lot of stress. You know, since then I'm not perfectly healed and boy did it hit my weak spots. I mean it, it was amazing.

44:11 - Michaela (Host)

Yeah, it was when you said before like, it was right around the time you had your child that you started getting sick. That's the same thing that happened. Well, cause we moved into that house while I was pregnant and so then very soon after we had my son and I was getting sick, I mean I got sick back to back, like got strep throat and was like out for like two straight weeks. I mean I had never been that sick. But just like two weeks two for two years after I had my son and every everything I thought about it was just like oh, this is what's like to be a mother, you know, and it's like no, that's not normal, it's not normal for your body to be like that deprived, that you are just getting everything under the sun.

44:53

And my friend was saying that to me about my kid Cause, whenever I sent him to school and he's in a nature school, he's outside most of the time he was getting sick. And I'm like, oh, that's normal. Everyone says that you know your kid gets sick and it's like no, but your kid's immune system should be, especially with the way that we live, it should be strong enough to combat those things that they're being exposed to. They shouldn't really be getting sick like that If they are something's going on and I'm like, oh, okay, yeah, and so much the journey's never over.

45:25 - Jennifer (Guest)

Oh yeah, and you know, and that's the thing it's like, yeah, kids need to get sick a couple of times a year, maybe, maybe three times, and it should be pretty minor and they might get something big. I mean, you know strep throat or something like that. But parents, if they have the appropriate illnesses as children, they shouldn't be catching these things from their kids and that's always a red flag. If you're literally catching everything from your child, something's going on. It might not be mold, but I mean you need to look at your system and look at your lifestyle and figure out and that was the same thing, I mean my daughter, when she was little. Little I'm like, why is she getting sick? Where are we going?

46:00 - Michaela (Host)

Exactly, we weren't even anywhere.

46:02 - Jennifer (Guest)

Exactly Like we're just both here pushing away because you don't sleep and I'm tired.

46:09 - Michaela (Host)

Yeah, exactly. So how did you come into EMF? Like, let's like, how did EMF become part of this conversation for you?

46:18 - Jennifer (Guest)

So I knew about EMFs before I really even understood mold.

46:22

I am one of those people that is just by nature pretty sensitive to a lot of things, and it only got worse after the mold. Now, I didn't necessarily know I had an EMF issue, you know like early on, but I was in my twenties and I got a very strange skin condition and so it was like my skin couldn't actually, you know, we lose skin cells every single solitary day. We have to. I couldn't do it. My body couldn't like want to hang on to these things and so it became a very uncomfortable like.

46:55

Visually it didn't look weird, but it became a very uncomfortable condition and I had like itching underneath my skin. I mean, the best way to describe it is like if somebody just peeled the layer off, like it would be. Underneath it was itchy, so not not an external itch, and it was actually a dermatologist who did a lot of work in New Zealand, where they have a completely different look at things, and he said that when you're here in the U S, there's so many things that we're exposed to, and he was the one that suggested to me that I was a rare person who has a reaction to basically, radio waves, wow.

47:33

And he's, like you know, based on where you're living, how close are you to substations, powerline, like, looking at big sources of you know, but we now kind of just lumped together as EMFs. Yeah, I'm like, oh weird.

47:46

So, there wasn't a lot back in like 2002 on EMFs. I mean a little bit here and there, but we were, we were focused more back then on like a microwave, you know. Now people were starting to think like we shouldn't stand in front of a microwave. Yeah, again, it wasn't so much like the EMF, it was. So again, it was just like trying to understand this and piece together like the strange reaction. So I kind of had an earlier exposure, exposure but not really an understanding. And it wasn't until really kind of the cell phone game started to kick in, where everybody had a cell phone. You know, you and I are from generations where we did not have that.

48:34

And you know, as these cell phones started getting fancier and doing more things and there's more talk about, hey, men, don't put it in your front pocket, you know we're seeing men go sterile and they're like, huh, what in the world is this all about? And so you know, before I had my daughter, I was really already looking at EMFs and I was kind of wigged out by the whole thing and you know I was like, oh okay, we don't want this wifi over here, like the baby's going to be here. The baby was not there.

49:03 - Michaela (Host)

Yeah.

49:04 - Jennifer (Guest)

We all think our babies are going to be in a crib sleeping.

49:06 - Michaela (Host)

Yeah, yeah, oh right.

49:09 - Jennifer (Guest)

That fun fallacy. So sorry moms who are pregnant right now and have never been a mom but he's not going to be in that crib.

49:15 - Michaela (Host)

Yeah, that nursery. A lot of time. A lot of time and money.

49:19 - Jennifer (Guest)

So I got, I kind of did dive down the rabbit hole and then, after I had my daughter and I quit the job that I had and, you know, started ghostwriting and really learning about EMFs. It was like whoa holy gosh.

49:40 - Michaela (Host)

So you were writing for other practitioners on this topic and having to like research it and stuff. That's so funny, because people are doing that with the Wave Forward. I have, you know, friends who were just phenomenal writers that I asked to come on to help me write the blog and they're all like “Oh my God. Like, I had no idea.” I'm like, This is why we do this.

49:56 - Jennifer (Guest)

Yeah, Exactly, and this was this was obviously during a time too, I mean, my, my daughter, was born in 2009. And so you know, I started ghostwriting in 2010 and this was really before you could ask the internet anything. I mean, you had to still really look up studies. You could find them on the internet but I mean I was going to scientific journals and it was so just poof over my head.

50:23

There was not a lay person's explanation and understanding yeah you know, and there were all these studies out there and and just like, okay, but this one says it's not that bad and this one says it's terrible, and you know, and so I think that that for the general public it was really when 5G started to be, you know, kind of front and center, where the conversation got big, because now 5G suddenly seems scary. But why? Why were we not more concerned about EMFs?

50:54

It was not really until I started to take a deep dive down the rabbit hole of 5G because I was seeing all these teeny, tiny little 5G things going up in the neighborhood and I'm like this isn't cool with me, like why, why do we need so many of them?

51:09 - Michaela (Host)

I know so close together.

51:12 - Jennifer (Guest)

Yeah, and I also live right by a substation and at the base of a military base where you know who knows what's coming out of there and you know.

51:21

So I have done so much research into protecting the exterior of my home, but also the interior and my person, and so when I started to learn more and more about 5G, that's when I sort of accidentally learned how mold starts to react in the presence of any sort of emfs. Just this has completely now shifted the conversations that I have with people, because we can't just talk about food sources being water or being you know some kind of humid environment, or being wallpaper glue or being book glue or you know all the things that mold can proliferate on. Now we have to talk about the EMFs in your house, and y'all are going to think I'm a nut job, because I mean, how many mold inspectors walk in and also start looking at the EMF load in a home?

52:21 - Michaela (Host)

Hardly anybody, so do you do that when you're in people's houses? That's amazing.

52:26 - Jennifer (Guest)

That is amazing yeah, and you know people are always very floored at how many electronics they have plugged in and I'll go through and do a count and they're like, oh, but I mean that's, but that's just plugged in, it's not turned on. I'm, I'm like it's plugged in, it's on, like if you have anything plugged in, it's doing the thing you know, doesn't have to be working, but it's doing a thing.

52:50

And you know, I mean even just sitting here looking at my desk. You know the previous version of me. I would have just seen a laptop. No, no, there is a backup drive that's plugged into the wall. My desk is an up and down desk. That's plugged into the wall. There's a charger in the wall. There's the actual laptop plugged into the wall. Oh wait, oh, what's this over here, you know? And so you start to look around. I'm like, oh my God, that's six things plugged into like one inch that I'm sitting on. Yeah, yeah, that's just. That's cooking me right now.

53:23

And that's just my desk, you know, and that's. These are minor things. I mean, these are not major appliances in a home. This is not your wifi.

53:32

I mean you know, and obviously we have to plug stuff in. Yeah, we can't turn our power out at night when we go to sleep, which would be ideal to sleep in a powerless environment. We got to keep our food cold, you know. Yeah, People like to have their phones on and want the wifi. I mean, you know so. But it was really interesting to me to learn about this EMF, mold and mycotoxin connection, because it changed the game in a huge way and I mean I really developed a much deeper understanding of why indoor mold has become the problem that it has become.

54:07 - Michaela (Host)

That's a really good point that I've never that really hasn't been made, cause I'm like it is such a big thing now. But also, everybody has wifi in their home and everybody has all of these things that we just didn't have before.

54:20 - Jennifer (Guest)

Yep, exactly, and you know so when you think about mold. There's two things in this world we don't like and we don't want in our homes, but they're critical to our environment, and that's mold and cockroaches, and they're also you know they're also the two things that are going to be here long past humans.

54:39

But they have very important jobs. They break down organic matter. If we did not have mold outside and if we did not have cockroaches outside, I can't even explain what our world would look like. They have very, very important jobs, but you bring those indoors and it's a problem.

54:55

And the interesting thing, I've also become a bit of a cockroach expert because I tend to get called into like some hoarding situations, and so you know, I've had to become friends with these cockroaches, but they actually operate similar to mold. It's really very interesting. Cockroaches are emboldened by EMFs, if you will. It’s very interesting. So there's, you know, there's a lot of correlations between the two. But when mold gets indoors it shouldn't be here. We're not supposed to have the mold indoors. But when you think back to, you know, I think back to as a kid where, unfortunately, there was just a whole infrastructure issue in my neighborhood and our basement would back up with everybody's sewage once a year.

55:41

We didn't have mold issues. Out of that, like, wow, how in the world did we not have mold, like you know? And that was in the late 70s and early 80s, and you know it's kind of like but how, how? Where was the mold? You know? But we didn't have a lot of the compounding issues that we have today. And so when you look at mold and you look at mycotoxins and you look at EMFs, there is a very, very obvious and scientifically proven connection between why mold is such a serious issue now in indoor environments. And I mean that can be your home, that can be an office, airport, restaurant. I mean I encourage people don't look too closely where you're shopping, just don't, because we would never buy anything. I mean, you know, when you realize how moldy everything is in this world, we'd never, you know we'd all be literally running around starving and naked because we wouldn't want to go and get our groceries or clothes from anywhere.

56:39 - Michaela (Host)

Sleeping outside. Wow.

56:44 - Jennifer (Guest)

And so so you know, EMFs not only amplify what is happening in the indoor environment from a mold and mycotoxin production perspective, but EMFs amplify what happens inside your system when you have been exposed to mold and mycotoxins. And you know, a lot of times people don't put you know, they kind of think of one but not the other, and you know. So. If it can amplify what is happening in building material that is, you know, covered in mold, then think about what happens to your insides that are also covered in mold.

57:18 - Michaela (Host)

And you know, it basically starts working against you inside. You're like you have now something inside you that's literally working against your body and just replicating. It's not fun to think about.

57:30 - Jennifer (Guest)

No, and, and you know EMFs. I mean you know, before we get to, what happens in your home or or, you know, in a building, a building when you're exposed to EMFs and you already have a mold and mycotoxin situation going on in your system. So it disrupts detoxification. I mean it's not that you can't do a detoxification process, but it disrupts it. It's not going to work as well, it's going to take longer, it's going to send you back to square one. I mean the EMFs are disrupting your body's ability to do what it would do naturally or with some assistance, through supplementation. It also stimulates more mycotoxins to be released because you know, if you recall, the point of mycotoxins is to protect the mold, right? So if it's feeling threatened by the electromagnetic activity that you're being exposed to, the mold in, it's going to create more mycotoxins because it's like Whoa, whoa, hold on now, you know, um, and then just, I mean it's just going to also increase the entire toxic burden in your system because it's an EMF. Yeah, even without, understanding.

58:33 - Michaela (Host)

Even without understanding, like every detail of the science, it makes complete sense because, like, I've talked to some different researchers. One of them was a neurologist and he was explaining how, like we are electric, electromagnetic beings and like we rely on electrical currents to communicate and to turn genes on and off.

58:50

So, like, if we're relying on that communication to turn the gene on or to turn whatever system on to be able to detoxify those, the mold, but then we have these outside sources of electromagnetic fields and frequencies that are communicating with our bodies that are like so confusing, so completely abnormal to what we would naturally find in, you know, if we were to like go sit on the earth or if our body was in like a resting state. Is that something that people don't really realize? It's like everyone says, oh well, EMFs are everywhere, it's always been everywhere, like they say with molds. But it's like, okay, yes, but like the differences are not just like small amount different, it's like we're we're talking hundreds of thousands of times faster frequencies, different frequencies, and so, yeah, that that coming into, like hitting our body all the time has to disrupt the systems that are in place, the communications in place, to do these types of things like to turn these things on and off. That need to keep us well, dr Amy Moore.

59:51 - Jennifer (Guest)

Exactly exactly, and people don't really basically looking at, pre-5g even more rudimentary smartphones than we have now. I mean, our phones today are basically mini computers, but I mean today's EMF load is several million times higher. People need to really grasp that, that this is millions of times higher than just 10 years ago. Think about the next 10 years. I mean, if it, if it went from that to that in a 10 year span, where, where are we going to be in another 10 years? Are we even going to be able to handle something?

01:00:32 - Michaela (Host)

Right. And everyone's saying, okay, well, we'll adapt, and I do partially agree that our body's going to try to adapt, but, like, how do we adapt when things are moving that fast?

01:00:45 - Jennifer (Guest)

We can't do it successfully and it really is going to be survival of the fittest. I mean, I have a lot of conversations with people where they're just like gosh, I mean, how big is our population going to get before we can't support the people here. And I'm like, well, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but we are sort of in a very awful cycle right now where we are going to see survival of the fittest because of the things that we're putting into our environment, and not just EMFs, I mean other things too and this is where this is kind of, you know, I don't like to call it an experiment, but it really you know I always call it an experiment.

01:01:27 - Jennifer (Guest)

It is going to prove. Ok, what, what genes do we really need to be able to survive all this? What combination of genes do we need? What do we need in terms of all of these other outside factors, you know, in order to survive this and then not just survive it but to actually function in a healthy way, where you know? I mean, I've been sure I guess 90% of us are fatigued and tired all the time. I don't remember my parents being that worn out back in 1982. You know, I came home from school and my mom's just perky and happy and dad comes home from work and plays with me and didn't seem tired.

01:02:04 - Michaela (Host)

I don't even think I knew what autism was when I was in school. It was a very uncommon thing. It was not. Like you know, half of the kids in your class are on the spectrum, right? You know it was so different and I'm like so much has changed since then.

01:02:26 - Jennifer (Guest)

And we could eat whatever was at the grocery store because it wasn't that bad. I mean, things were still made with real sugar, not corn syrup and all this other junk that's put in. I mean, I can sit there and remember like gosh did we have tons of food dye? No, you know, things looked different. They weren't colorful, and you know. And so all these things that we've been doing over time and that continue to get worse because, you know, unfortunately we've got to find a way to feed people and we simply can't grow enough food, farm enough animals to feed the population yeah, you know yeah, and so yeah it is.

01:03:09

It is going to be interesting as things progress, and I do. I do hope we get to a point where finally somebody stands up and says, uh-uh, like we, we have to stop doing this. We have enough EMFs, we're good, we don't need to add more.

01:03:19 - Michaela (Host)

Everything's moving fast enough, at least for right now, like, let our bodies adjust to what's happening. Yeah, the other thing that, I, we were talking about Dr Rusty - if you guys are listening to this, his episodes probably live now - you can go listen to it. But he was talking about how, like, it's not like whenever, but first off, all of the studies coming out that are showing harm are based off of like what you're talking about. Like years ago, when we were using 1G and 2G and we had like 900 megahertz right.

01:03:49

And now we're in, like the 300 gigahertz which, like you said, is millions of times different than that which we are seeing studies showing harm, clear studies showing clear harm. And, yeah, you're not going to have the, like you know, double plus, whatever they do the - What is the double blind placebo?

01:04:05 - Jennifer (Guest)

Yeah, you can't, we are that we are the experiment.

01:04:11 - Michaela (Host)

Right now. It is already so worldwide deployed that it would be almost impossible to do that, unless you have someone grow up in a faraday cage. So he was talking about how, like, we're not slowly increasing these bandwidths, we are exponentially increasing these bandwidths. But also, when 5g deploys, 4g does not get shut off. It's not like, oh okay, we're taking away 4g and now we're going high.

01:04:39

Everything is layered on top of each other. So when you have these safety limits which you know, Dr. Kent in a previous episode talked about what these safety limits are based off of and how old they are and how ridiculous they are I mean, that's my opinion, but they are so ridiculous. These FCC regulations. But even if we were to say those are safe limits, they're not based on the compounding effect of what's happening. It's like, oh, they have a safety limit for 5G and like where they need to be in all of these things, but they're not basing that off of people having 25 different smart devices in their home and having, you know, three wife out, my sister has three Wi-Fi routers in her home because she works from home. I'm like dude, like yeah, like you know that, but that's normal for people. And like I work in an office, I work in the office, I do the podcast in every single office has their own wifi router and there's probably 35 offices in here, so they're not considering that.

01:05:37 - Jennifer (Guest)

That is the experiment Exactly, and it's you know when you, when you think about the last time that they really did an FCC study right, 20, 20 years ago, 25 years ago, yeah, we did not have anything that we have today, anything.

01:05:55 - Michaela (Host)

And it was an acute study, so it was only based off - It was like an hour or two long, an hour or two hour long study. It's based off of monkeys. I think it was monkeys and rats and they basically just increased the EMF exposure until the monkeys could no longer pull a lever to like get food, until they were so disoriented. And then they divided that number by 50 and they said, okay, that's the max amount of EMF exposure that we can have, but that's also only with like per devices. It's not okay. Well, we need to measure the EMF exposure that's happening in schools and make sure that we're not going to continue adding things in the surrounding area that's going to surpass the limits.

01:06:34

In some countries. It is like I bet in New Zealand they have some things like that going on. I know like in Russia and in Italy and France there's certain countries that do have a little bit of safety limits, especially with children, because children are a lot more at risk. But also what's so interesting about those countries is that they're the countries that have the longest standing research.

01:06:57

However, we feel about Russia, separate that to just the facts of they were the first ones to start research on EMF and they have the most regulations which is interesting.

01:07:14 - Jennifer (Guest)

That's kind of the scary thing. You know, people discredit some of the research that's being done in these countries that you know we might consider volatile or a country that we really don't want to put support behind. But it's like, look, they're doing some important research, yeah.

01:07:30 - Michaela (Host)

And you know we really need to pay attention. You have to separate the politics?

01:07:33 - Jennifer (Guest)

Yeah, Exactly, I don't care where the research comes out of, I mean I'm going to look at it and say, okay, wait, who are these people that are doing it? And is this, you know, associated with any sort of, you know, medical type establishment school? Is this just some you know? Joe Blow off the street that decided to do this?

01:07:51 - Michaela (Host)

What kind of journal published it? Yeah, we're doing an episode on that. I'm so excited. Dr. Kent Chamberlin, who's the president of the Environmental Health Trust, who helped sue the FCC with the children's health defense - so he's got a lot of really awesome insights. But he's going to be doing an episode on how to tell the difference between, like, a fringe journal and a legitimate journal. Because the telecommunication companies all they do is say, oh well, all the information is coming from fringe journals. And he's like, I thought that when I started researching it and then I started looking into all the different journals who are publishing you know, these studies that are indicating harm, and it's like wait, no, all of the fringe journals are the ones that are being paid for by these telecommunication companies to do these very manipulated studies and you know, and to have something that says that it doesn't necessarily bring harm.

01:08:49 - Jennifer (Guest)

Yeah, and, and that's what people want to cling to. They just want one study that says you're going to be okay. I mean, it's kind of like when people make the mistake of going on the internet and researching their symptom.

01:08:56 - Michaela (Host)

They just want one result to come back.

01:08:59 - Jennifer (Guest)

I just want one thing saying diet Coke is okay to drink, at least right, exactly, I just need one and then I'm okay, nevermind the 400 other ones but actually that one, you know, and it's, and that kind of comes back to the whole mold mycotoxin, EMF thing.

01:09:17

You know it hasn't been extensively studied, like you know, because, again, EMFs have been studied, but, you know, related just to the EMF itself, not, you know, and human health we're not looking at. What does it do that impacts other bacteria? And so the few studies that are out there are also kind of so, I think, over people's heads too.

01:09:50

But it's pretty basic. I mean all the studies that have been done and really there's like there's four prominent ones, but, um, I mean really it took mold. It measured what was happening in terms of its growth. It measured the mycotoxins that were being released and they were done in controlled environments that did not have any sort of exposure. Basically, they put the mold in a Faraday cage, right, and I mean, for anybody who doesn't know what that is, it's basically a special silver cloth that you know protects it from you know any of the EMS coming in, and they did continued measurements to see what the average growth of, you know, active mold was and what the average release of mycotoxin was. Then they exposed it to varying levels of EMFs and when they did that, I mean it exploded and that it doesn't really matter. You know, looking at each individual study, like okay, did it explode 600 times the amount?

01:10:48 - Michaela (Host)

I think it was that it was like 600% or something crazy.

01:10:52 - Jennifer (Guest)

I'm like it doesn't matter, but 600 times, 2000 times, 10 times.

01:11:04

The fact of the matter is EMFs impact mold growth and mycotoxin production, and not in a good way. It's not disrupting those where they can't do it. It's making them far, far, far, far worse. And that's where I think the indoor mold issue really took the turn and where it's so important to understand that connection for people, because it doesn't matter if you literally just have one wi-fi router, a refrigerator and a microwave and you don't use any other electricity, you're still adding EMFs into your environment just by using those you know. And so if you develop a situation where you have an active mold growth happening, doesn't matter if it's small, doesn't matter if it's large, it's going to be worse in the presence of EMFs. And I mean, how many of us actually get rid of EMFs from the inside of our homes every day? At some point we don't.

01:11:54

I mean they're constant and we can, you know, we can use different products, we can protect ourselves personally. We can, you know, add some things that do some disruption within our home, but it doesn't clear it out a hundred percent. I mean it's you know, there's not something, unfortunately.

01:12:11

I wish there was, but there is not a magic bullet right now to completely, 100% eradicate the EMF load that is happening inside a home. And so until that technology happens where we're able to completely not just disrupt but eliminate EMFs 100%, if you end up with a mold issue, you're going to have a worse mold issue, and if there are toxigenic molds that produce mycotoxins, those mycotoxins are going to just be I mean literally all cylinders firing because that's a threat to the mold the EMFs are a threat to the mold.

01:12:46

The EMFs are just. I mean, you know, you think of mold like a human body. The EMFs are attacking the mold spores, they're attacking their genetic makeup, their DNA structure, because they don't want the mold to be able to replicate, just like what it does in our own systems, and attacks our systems and, you know, tries to basically disrupt our processes. So that's what it's trying to do to mold and that's what makes mold angry. It's like aha, aha.

01:13:15

So now we're I mean now we have to produce more mycotoxins. And again, you know the mycotoxin conversation is so foreign to everybody. I mean I will talk to some very mold savvy people and then I suddenly pop out the word mycotoxin and it's dead silence and they're like hey, what, who? Yeah, I'm like mycotoxin, and I think I love to throw this in because this is kind of that startling moment for people. I had one mycotoxin which was unusual because I had a lot of different kinds of mold, but because I had stachybotrys in very, very high amounts it produced a mycotoxin that basically kind of like it's the mycotoxin, it will take over everything else. So I had trichothysine. Like it's the mycotoxin, it will take over everything else. So I had trichothazine. And I said so like to better understand what that is and the severity and really what you're dealing with here.

01:14:09

If you go look up biological warfare, you know most everybody knows biological warfare. If you go look up the ingredients in biological warfare, there is one ingredient in biological warfare and that is trichothysine. That is a mycotoxin. That is biological warfare. And when I tell that to people, I mean there's like everybody's face just drains of color and they're like wait, we've been exposed to biological warfare. I'm like, yes, you have. Yeah, that is what that is. And so that realization. Then they're like, oh my God, get it out of the house. Yeah, now we need it out, yeah. And so, even you know, remediation practices have evolved, I mean, thank goodness. Finally, the EPA has said don't use bleach on mold. I mean, that was for me like ha ha ha.

01:15:05 - Michaela (Host)

Thank you.

01:15:06 - Jennifer (Guest)

Oh my gosh, we've only been fighting for this forever and so you know, remediation practices have changed.

01:15:13

There's a lot of different ways of going about doing it. I mean, removing mold is always the best way, not just putting a treatment of some sort on it. But you know there's a lot of ways to tackle it. But mycotoxins that's new. I mean, nobody is talking about mycotoxins, nobody's figuring out how to get rid of them, and you know, luckily there are a couple of products that are very, very well tested and have seen a success rates in being able to help people get the mycotoxin load out of their home.

01:15:43 - Michaela (Host)

So is it like is it, what is it? Is it like a fan of some kind that like sucks stuff in? How does it work?

01:15:50 - Jennifer (Guest)

So mycotoxins are even smaller than mold spores. That's, that's the problem, you know. So just coming in with your standard air scrubbers and doing what you would kind of do normally environmentally is not going to grab these mycotoxins and they're sticky, so they stick on stuff that a mold spore typically wouldn't find itself on. I mean, you, you don't find high loads of mold spores sticking to plastic.

01:16:13

Mycotoxins. It's a chemical. I mean, think about what chemicals are capable of doing. They can permeate differently than a mold spore, can they stick on things in a different way? And so they're invisible. I mean not that a mold spore, one single spore, is visible to the naked eye, but if you look and kind of look around and see your dust load in your home, you're like, oh, there's some mold spores in there. Not necessarily the case with the mycotoxins. They can be glued to your wall and you're never going to know. And so there's a couple of approaches. First, you have to do what's called a small particle cleaning and nobody wants to do that. It is so tedious.

01:16:50

I mean, I mean I say small particles, we're talking about cleaning literally like the envelope. I mean we're cleaning every single solitary thing in somebody's environment, from scrubbing walls to you know, pieces, big pieces of furniture, to tiny, impossible spaces that you would never realize a piece of dust was collecting in. So, you know, the small particle cleaning becomes very, very, very important and it really needs to be done by professionals that know how to properly clean small particles. I mean, I've, I've walked people through doing it in smaller spaces and I will get a phone call five days later saying I haven't even finished a quarter of this, this space. I'm like, I'm trying to tell you like you literally need, yeah, you need a team. You can't, you can't do this as one person. But even physically, removing as many of the mycotoxins as you can, you just won't get them all. And so that's where, then, using a couple of different protocols becomes very, very important. And so the two protocols that are out there right now, one is more of a botanical-based protocol through a thermal fogging method, and, for anybody who doesn't know, thermal fogging is a dry fogging, so it's very safe to use with electronics and things like that, so you don't have to really remove a lot from your home except living things, people, pets, plants and the thermal fog.

01:18:18

If you've ever lived on the coast or been to the coast, it's like a pea soup where you can't see your hand in front of you type of fog. And it permeates into every space that it can possibly get to. And because it's so thick and so small, you know it can get into nooks and crannies and cracks and crevices. So as long as it can touch the mycotoxins, it essentially denatures them and it disrupts the chemical structure and they no longer will be harmful to human health. And so, and just as a reminder to everybody, mycotoxins don't replicate on their own. So this is not an issue of having to stop the replication of, like we would a mold spore. We want to disrupt the ability to replicate. This is completely disrupting the chemical structure, so it cannot harm human health.

01:19:05

And then, of course, after the fog has settled, then there's a whole other cleaning protocol, and it's not that the fog itself doesn't leave like a residue, but again it's dropping everything down as the fog starts to settle.

01:19:19

So the fog goes to the farthest, highest spaces and then you get back pressure and it starts to fill, fill, fill to the ground and then, as the fog begins to dissipate and move, it starts to come down. So you really do want to try to grab anything that this fog has settled on to horizontal spaces. The other method is a two-prong process. It's essentially raising the humidity levels, which everybody's like, ah, nope, we don't want to raise the humidity levels. I'm like no, no, no, you're using a specific product, and so it's a hypochlorous, acid-based product, which is basically it's salt, it's a magic salt, and we, you know I can spend the next hour explaining the science behind that but essentially it is a magic salt and and you, you spray your entire environment, raising the humidity and as this hypochlorous acid lands on things, it is in its own self tackling issues with mold and mycotoxins.

01:20:22 - Michaela (Host)

So it's hypochloric. How do you say it Hypochloric?

01:20:25 - Jennifer (Guest)

I know there's hypochloric.

01:20:27 - Michaela (Host)

There's all kinds of hypochlorous acid. Okay, so that's not sodium chloride. No, okay or no, it's not. It's not chlorine dioxide, I'm sorry, not chlorine dioxide, yes.

01:20:42 - Jennifer (Guest)

Yeah, that comes next. The chlorine dioxide is the next step in the process, and so you're raising the humidity with this and you're actually you know getting it on stuff that might have some mold spores and mycotoxins. But then you come in with the chlorine dioxide bombs and between those two they work synergistically, and there have been studies. Now they all. It has to be formulated properly. I mean, this is not something you just go in order and hope that you're doing it right.

01:21:04

You know, it has to be the right concentration, otherwise you're not really you know having the effect. But in the right concentrations, done the proper way, um, it can actually, I mean, completely eradicate up to like 98% of all mycotoxins that might be in your environment. And with no cleaning, I mean you should do some cleaning. But I mean, if you chose not to do any cleaning, you're still going to get that level of removal and it works in a different way instead of, like disrupting the chemical structure. I mean you're talking like it just completely blows all of this apart. Wow, and so it's. The research that has been coming out about this system is so exciting because previously, really, it was just only this botanical based process of thermal fogging which is, I mean, it's easier in some ways, but you know you got a lot of cleaning involved.

01:22:00

A lot of people get a little nervous. They're like, technically, isn't chlorine dioxide a chemical? Like I'm chemically sensitive? So am I. I do these treatments for people a lot and it's not does not bother me in the least. I mean you need to wear a respirator. You're not wanting to breathe that in or anything like that, and you need to air out the house.

01:22:19

But it's the first treatment that has had so many studies done that has shown that it gets to that level and I mean I'm really excited to hopefully see more and more things come out and get into the forefront Again. Mycotoxins are, you know, kind of this elusive thing and so many people stay sick and even practitioners don't necessarily, you know, good, really good practitioners understand mycotoxins, but there are still a lot of newer practitioners. They might be really understanding of mold, they still don't really understand the mycotoxin picture and so for so many people they don't have to continue this cycle of suffering. If they just knew, okay, it's this mycotoxin piece, and but I am still met with so much resistance from people.

01:23:06 - Michaela (Host)

Oh, I don't want to do that. Oh, I mean, I know people drink that stuff. So I mean the chlorine dioxide is I mean there's so much stuff about that. That's a whole other side topic. But I had the same initial reaction about it, cause my mom was the one who was like you really got to look into chlorine dioxide for the mold stuff and um and anyway. But as I started researching more and more I was like, okay, well, there's gotta be. You know, I'm pretty sure they use it in water treatment facilities and you know there's all kinds of stuff, yeah, so it's not.

01:23:37 - Jennifer (Guest)

It's not something that just popped up you know a year ago. Like this is a miracle, but it's more of the combination of how that works with the hypochlorous acid. Having how you do it properly, raising the humidity so it works the most effectively. Making sure it's dark, doing these treatments at night, you know. You just don't want to set this off at noon and expect that it's going to work. It breaks down very quickly in light, so you need to have a dark atmosphere. I mean, there's a lot of little things that.

01:24:02 - Michaela (Host)

So are there like experts doing this throughout, or is it kind of like new Right now?

01:24:09 - Jennifer (Guest)

So it's still pretty new right now and I love this for this company. It's a newer company and it's a woman owned company. These are women who are experts in mycotoxins and mold and just environmental health in general and they've come together and now they actually do have a company where they do mycotoxin removal.

01:24:30 - Michaela (Host)

That's awesome.

01:24:32 - Jennifer (Guest)

I'm like, oh my gosh, I want this to go nationwide. So right now they're based in Nashville and they will do consults and in some cases they will get their team on a plane for the right cases.

01:24:44

But I really am excited and hope that they grow because this is the first you know of this type of remediation. They do not come in and remove walls and, you know, do those kinds of things. They are coming in solely to address mycotoxins, and it's more affordable than people think. I mean, you can do it yourself. I have walked people through it, you know, and they've done it and they're like, oh, it wasn't that bad, like okay, once we, once we did it, it really wasn't that bad. I'm like, no, it's not that bad. The worst part is strapping on an electrostatic fogger and having to spray your home down like that.

01:25:18

But you know yeah chlorine dioxide, as long as it's formulated correctly. You put some water, you drop it in. You get the heck out of dodge. I mean, yeah, not you know let it air out.

01:25:28 - Michaela (Host)

Yeah, that's amazing. I love hearing that. I'm gonna like look more into that because I feel like it'd be cool to do a treatment like that for our new home. Just to make sure we're coming in, you know, we're coming in clean.

01:25:38 - Jennifer (Guest)

Yeah I did twice. I did a treatment basically once they they got the drywall on because you can't do it with fresh air coming in, but I did the treatment once I got the drywall on and everything was closed up, and then before I moved in, after everything was installed and the interesting thing is the chlorine dioxide also disrupts VOCs.

01:26:08

So for people who are very sensitive to VOCs especially if you're coming into a newly built home where it's just off gassing, like you know I mean I had my little VOC monitors going and was like nope, can't move in. Today, doing that treatment significantly lowered that as well. So you know it has a lot of value outside of just the mold mycotoxin picture.

01:26:31 - Michaela (Host)

But I want your tool belt.

01:26:33 - Jennifer (Guest)

I know right, everybody's like can we see your closet? That has all this stuff in it. And I'm like, oh, like it's fun.

01:26:39 - Michaela (Host)

It's fun to do it too.

01:26:41 - Jennifer (Guest)

That's hilarious to stuff it in, I'm like, oh, but yeah, so you know, and that's that's the thing you know doing. Doing the chlorine dioxide treatment, I mean again, that's that's kind of a bigger thing for people because it sounds a little scarier you can do a once yearly, twice yearly thermal fogging. I mean, people have to remember we are constantly bringing mold into our home. I mean, if you wear shoes in the house, you're bringing in mold. If you open a window, you're bringing in mold. You open and out a door, you're bringing in mold spores. It's giving it food.

01:27:08

And that's where we really want the mold prevention and that's why it's nice that there are some things that you can do to clean the entire environment. Doing the thermal fogging a couple of times a year, doing a once yearly, you know chlorine dioxide treatment, and you know really doing that to kind of tackle anything that you're not seeing, making sure that your duct work is in good shape and clean, that's huge. I mean, so many issues are because of the HVAC system and that's sort of like the part nobody ever really thinks about. You know. So making sure you have a trusted company that's coming out and inspecting that every year, and you know, just again listening to your body, because it's going to usually alert you to something before anything else.

01:27:51 - Michaela (Host)

Yeah, I love the preventative measures. Like I want to go like, make a calendar and be like, okay, once a year we're doing this and yeah, that's so awesome. So what, like, what do you recommend to people with the EMF stuff? Like that was one reason I was really drawn to Aries tech.

01:28:08

Like that's how I kind of came into it, because I was like, okay, all of the blocking stuff, it's like it's just especially with, like children, it's like okay, well, I can't just put like a whole outfit on my child, you know, and then, and then learning that, like that, like the way that we're electrical beings, and then that kind of hit me weird was okay, well, I'm not really wanting to put a hat on my kid that's going to keep his body from you know what I mean Like the electrical flow from happening. I'm unsure about that, but I came into Aries because I was like I want something that's going to strengthen our ability to contend with what's going on here, cause that's really the only thing I can think of to do Exactly and that's that's what I think is the most important is and obviously I mean I love Aries.

01:28:56 - Jennifer (Guest)

I have been with them and using their products since really early days.

01:29:01 - Michaela (Host)

When the website was. Yeah, yeah, I mean, I remember when the website was yeah, yeah.

01:29:04 - Jennifer (Guest)

I mean I remember when they were literally like just a couple months old and I stumbled on them and reached out and was like hey, that's amazing, that's amazing and I love it when I find that and then watch a company's journey and I mean and it's not.

01:29:18

I mean I test other products but I always come back to Aries. I just think they're an incredible product. They are so transparent. They are very willing to admit when they can do something better and then they do it better. I mean, that's the thing for people who haven't been there from day one. These are not the products from day one.

01:29:38 - Michaela (Host)

They're constantly innovating and changing and making them better.

01:29:41 - Jennifer (Guest)

Yeah for sure, and that's important, because there are plenty of products to choose from, but they're not necessarily products that have continued to advance as we continue to get a bigger burden of EMS. And that's what's important is, you know, and a lot of people are like, I just want something that's going to work for five years. I don't want to keep spending money. Lot of people are like I just want something that's going to work for five years.

01:30:04 - Jennifer (Guest)

But that's not the reality and I feel like Aries, too, has always kept a price point that for most people is manageable, even if we have to do an upgrade in a few years because technologies have changed. And you know, I mean for people who are still fortunate not to have a 5g phone, which I mean that's like super rare. But you know, you do, you have to do something. That's not the same phone that your little flip phone from back in.

01:30:28

You know, 2001 was and so you know I'm a firm believer in, again, you can't eradicate everything from your world because there are consequences to that. Like you said, you know I'm personally I do a lot with frequencies. I'm a big, big frequency person. I have a frequency program that I use. It scans my system, it tells me what frequencies are off balance and I can listen to those frequencies to like, reharmonize things and that's that's a big big component. And so, like you said, things and that's that's a big big component. And so, like you said, you know, if we all surrounded ourselves at night in these Faraday type cages to try to completely block things, you're also blocking the good stuff.

01:31:11 - Michaela (Host)

I mean there's good like your body's natural flow and response to nature and like all of those things.

01:31:20 - Jennifer (Guest)

And so when I try to explain different EMF products, I always encourage people go for the ones that are going to produce a harmonious response and allow your body to learn how to have these things come into it, into its system. It has to, because we're not going to prevent that from happening and step outside of your Faraday cage. Boom, yeah, no, and so, and that's the thing I mean I really do like the Aries product line because it helps create the balance that our system needs without getting rid of all the good stuff that our system is trying to do. And you don't have to do a lot, I mean some, you know, I look at a lot of people, especially people who love to do work with, like magnets, and looking at all the different you know strengths of those and they're like I'm up to like 400 gods right now with these magnets. I'm like, but what is that doing to the rest of your system? Like, what's that pulling out of your system?

01:32:21

Is that the best way to go about it? And so, yeah, it's really learning about any product that you're going to choose, understand how it works and you know what if you don't call the company. I'm a big proponent of that. I'm like they have customer service people for a reason.

01:32:42

I mean call and ask the questions If you don't understand what you're reading and it's just making absolutely no sense. And you've done a search on the internet, try and understand better, and it's still like call them and say, look, I need this explained for a three-year-old and they'll do it and then and then it'll make sense. And you know I've sent many people to customer service for Aries Tech and been like, okay, if this isn't working, yeah my explanation.

01:33:09

Ask them, and then they'll email back. “Oh my gosh, they were so nice, they sat on the phone with me for 45 minutes and I get it now.”

01:33:21 - Michaela (Host)

So yeah, I did the same thing. I started using their products. And then I had the now CEO, Josh Bruni, on my podcast, cause I wanted him to like really explain it in depth, because I had like a very basic understanding and I was mostly going based off intuition, just because of like what I understood that I wanted. And then also seeing the history of the company, cause I was like, okay, it tells me a lot about this company that they didn't just like see everyone's freaking out about EMF and come up with a product. It was like a military funded situation decades ago. It was based off research.

01:33:59

The research was what came first and then the product came later, as it was required basically. So when I was really understanding that and then he was able to break down the functionality of it, I started really wanting to participate more in the company. So I kind of pushed myself into this position. I'm like, wait, no, I'm like I'm on board with this. I'm actually like I'm really on board with what you guys are doing and I loved the transparency of it and the willingness to just have cause my podcast wasn't that huge or anything you know, and it was like he was. He came on and spent an hour and a half like really breaking it down. I thought that was really awesome. So yeah, and then I have my you know my grounding pads on my bed now, and I have you know my other thing too.

01:34:37 - Jennifer (Guest)

But that's the thing you know I'm. I'm not a big pushy salesy person on my site towards a specific product. I have a lot of options I discuss for people because I would rather educate and then let people continue doing the research, because in my opinion, that always feels better because, like you said, I think you come to a place where you're like intuition is just telling me that this is what's going to work for me, and I've definitely tested some products literally going on intuition. You know where I'm like Nope, nope, this isn't it. And I mean I get a pretty good response to EMFs when I like I said I have a stud substation right here, so I'm a good test person. Like, if I go out without my protection, my little hair is bristle and I'm Italian. I have a lot of little arm hairs, so there's plenty to see there and I have a pretty immediate, bristly reaction in response. I mean, when I've had a fly and go through the scanners, I mean, you know, it's like, yeah, and even with protection on, because you're getting assaulted by it, right and so, and it's funny like I had to have a CT scan and, oh my gosh, my little arm hairs didn't come down for like two days.

01:35:48 - Michaela (Host)

Oh my gosh.

01:35:51 - Jennifer (Guest)

And I felt I did, I literally felt fried. And so you know, when I, when I test different products, I can, I can really tell, because if I don't bristle, you're doing something Right.

01:36:02 - Michaela (Host)

Yeah, it's been really cool to talk to some people who have had true hypersensitivity and like, like Mike Bender did an episode and he, um he wasn't into any. He wasn't really into any of the natural stuff you know, like it wasn't, but he got really sick from Lyme and then ended up being extremely sensitive to EMF and he was saying that like he literally could not touch his um his keyboard, like the electricity would just go running through his fingers. So he was like it was like when I had the Aries device it was the first time that I could touch a device and it not like not feel that electric current going. I'm like that's crazy.

01:36:36 - Jennifer (Guest)

That's how I am with cell phones, like when I got a new phone before I could slap my protection on the phone. I mean I get it. I called my EMF rash. I mean my hand instantly, and it's like I mean anybody who's had neuropathy. It's like instant neuropathy in my hand.

01:36:54 - Michaela (Host)

And it's just like don't touch it.

01:36:56 - Jennifer (Guest)

Put it over here and get your sticker on that phone. I get that.

01:37:02 - Michaela (Host)

Yeah, my pinkies go like numb whenever I'm holding my phone. It's so weird. Okay, where can people find you? We've been going almost two hours. I love it. This was a good episode. Thank you so much for breaking this down. I feel like this is the perfect segue from the medical side and then going into like the actual, like functionality of it all, like what do you do and how do you find it and all the things. So where can people find you and connect with you?

01:37:26 - Jennifer (Guest)

So, on the mold side of things, I'm at moldhealthforyou.com. That's all spelled out. I do consultations with people all over the world. I have clients in India, the UK, so there is no part of the world that I'm not willing. You speak English or have a translator,I am happy to have a consult with you. I do email consults. I do actual, you know, zoom consults, iphone FaceTime consults.

01:37:51

But I'm very willing to work with people wherever you are in your journey, whether that's discovering what the problem is, whether you already have a remediation plan but aren't too sure about it, whether you're post-remediation and still sick. So, yeah, moldhealthforyou.com, you can go to. The work with me tab gives you all of the details about how we can work together. My website itself is, I mean, it's constantly being updated. I'm always making changes with, you know, any new studies that I can throw into an article to help support it. So tons and tons of information there. Use the search function or email me if you're looking for something specific. And then, on the natural health, natural living side of things, I keep them very separate because there's a lot of regulations around that, so I do not touch health topics on mold health for you.

01:38:38

And this is the fun one - Hybrid Rasta Mama is my website that I started back in 2011. And so that has a lot more towards natural living. I do have mold health related topics on there. I have a whole tab on there that covers a lot of different things related to that. So I, you know anybody can contact me through either website. You know I am interchangeable in that regard, but that's that's where you can find me.

01:39:08 - Michaela (Host)

Yay, thank you so much. That was seriously amazing.