The Rapid Influence of Wireless Radiation on Brain Health | Dr. Robert Turner

00:00 - Dr. Turner (Guest)

What was amazing for me is the literature, the papers, the research studies showing the absolute scientific evidence of what electromagnetic radiation does at the cellular level, at the subcellular mitochondrial level, at our physiological system levels. All that, a bunch of the people that have been doing that research were there.

00:24 - Michaela (Host)

Welcome to the Wave Forward, the podcast that dives deep into how technology shapes our health and well-being. From digital wellness to tech innovation, to the effects of electromagnetic fields, we cover the environmental, social and physical implications of technology. Ready to navigate the digital landscape with confidence, set your dial to discovery and tune in. You're listening to the Wave Forward, dr Robert Turner. Thank you so much for joining the podcast.

00:51 - Dr. Turner (Guest)

Thank you very much, Michaela.

00:54 - Michaela (Host)

So we've talked before, but because the podcast is new, I would love for you to just kind of introduce yourself a little bit. What is your background and how did you kind of start? How did the light bulb start going off for you with EMF?

01:10 - Dr. Turner (Guest)

When we discussed this, I was trying to - Is there a key moment when that happened? And I don't think so. I didn't have the experience that many people with electromagnetic sensitivity have. When it's like the straw that breaks the camel's back. You're blowing up a balloon and one last breath it pops and so and symptoms manifest. And I didn't come in that way. I came in because of being a clinician in the world of neurology, particularly pediatric neurology, although I trained in adult neurology and all that and people with seizures and all the disorders that are affected in the nervous system.

01:53

Over the last 20 years because I've been doing this 40 years since graduating from med school in the 80s, early 80s, more and more. You know we as a society, we're getting sicker collectively. They're building bigger hospitals, and as soon as they build the big hospitals they fill them up. They're boarding in the ER. There's not enough beds and the children and the adults that are in hospitals now are sicker than they were before. I'm not picking on individual people, but as a human race we have become much more complex. So the acuity level that's being faced by intensive care people, ER people, healthcare providers, hospital providers, let alone people. In practice it's more complex and more challenging than ever before. My experience was confirmed with that in the world of neurology, and even now when I go work in a hospital and help as a pediatric neurologist and epileptologist, seizure specialist and EEG. It's true. There's so much.

03:09

How did this all come around? The EEG has been a key part of my career. The electroencephalogram.It's to record brain waves from the EEG. And a hundred years ago we couldn't say that it's so easy to get an EG.

03:36

When Dr Berger and and people around that time in the 20s that discovered that you could record, that was not a good thing. You were a “heretic.” He was ousted from the medical establishment. You know it's ridiculous, you can't do that. And now here we are and we see all that. And so the EEG for me as a clinician - we do neurologists like to do lots of tests magnetic resin imaging and but I have been seeing over the last 15 to 20 years more and more abnormal EEGs and I believe that's a recognizable trend, no matter where I go or because I read EEGs for people all over the world now and if that's true, EEGs are becoming more abnormal in more people across the age span, because I read adult people, adult EGs and down in newborns.

04:31

So if that's true and EGs are more abnormal, it's either because that's happening or I don't know what I'm talking about anymore and I'm making this all up and keep myself questioning that, because that's why I trained the way I did and did several fellowships and have 10 board certifications as I said from the Shrek movie, “compensating for something?” You know, but because I wanted to be the best trained, best, most valuable clinician to the people. I would take care of the families, I would help, and that's why I did all those different trainings. So I would try to be good, and that also includes lifelong learning, which is - I didn't do it all back then. If I did, that's not the kind of doctor you want to see, who knows at all.

05:23

But these EEGs, it's really been a process over probably 20 years. Obviously, electromagnetic radiation it goes back many, many decades, as you know microwave radiation, talking about that in the 20s, 30s, 40s, and all the stuff that came out of Russia, particularly in places that we tended to kind of ignore in the United States, because it's not the United States and the Cold War didn't help those things. But seeing these changes and seeing more problems in kids in particular, because that's my specialty in the neurological realm, with more complex disorders and at younger and younger ages, and the thing that really triggered was seeing more and more kids with seizures closer and closer after occurring after birth. And again, either it's a sampling error, it's just I was there at the wrong time or the right time and and and I'm sure you've had this experience as you've come into the awareness of electromagnetic radiation it's like if it's that big of a deal, Michaela, then why didn't my doctor tell me about it? Why isn't the FDA telling us about it?

06:43

It’s like - if it's a big deal they would have told us, and I wish that was true and have nothing to do with conspiracy theories and all that. My experience as a clinician is: people are sicker. But this most sensitive test for the brain is the EEG, the electroencephalogram, which measures dynamic from the surface of the brain.

07:06

Of course you can go inside the brain and record it at thousandth of a second, millisecond resolution and you can see these changes acutely, like if there's radiation nearby, but also long-term and over the I don't remember how many years ago, single digit years, I stumbled or was led onto the literature and feel free to guide this however you want, because you know me.

07:38 - Michaela (Host)

No, I want to hear it all.

07:40 - Dr. Turner (Guest)

Well, what took it to another level is I've been seeing actually a characteristic cluster of EEG changes which I believe are biomarkers not specific for electromagnetic radiation but very consistent with exposure to artificial, environmental electromagnetic radiation, which is way too long to say.

08:07 - Michaela (Host)

Interesting. So wait really quick. So you're saying that like, as new deployments were happening, there were more abnormal EEGs happening, like the EEGs were changing?

08:26 - Dr. Turner (Guest)

That's a good question and I think you know the answer. You can answer that. So if we are exposed to more and more of some type of toxin in the environment, usually and they're actually called toxicants. A toxin is usually considered a naturally occurring substance, like botulinum toxin, things like that. A toxicant is a derived created toxin pesticides, herbicides, artificial wi-fi, electromagnetic radiation, microwave radiation that isn't part of our natural incredible world that we live on. So if you're exposed to those things over time it intuitively kind of makes sense that there will be some effect. But we're humans. We have very unique differences, so not everybody responds exactly the same way. There's a cluster of symptoms, but not every human being, not every person who smokes gets cancer. Not every smoker who gets cancer develops the same kind of cancer in the same location. We're humans. There's variation.

09:39

Of course that's a gap. But the problem with the electromagnetic radiation is it's not just humans, every living species, the plant species that are vanishing, the insects, the mammal issues, the stuff that we're seeing worldwide. And a lot of that was discussed by some of the foundational researchers at the symposium at Yale a couple weeks ago, the EMF symposium, which was one of the most amazing things I'd ever been to, so it's amazing being there. So I don't even remember what the question was, but it happened gradually.

10:10 - Michaela (Host)

Yeah.

10:11 - Dr. Turner (Guest)

And then I kept seeing this and very few other neurologists most of the time when neurologists, when you read EEGs, we're busy. We get this 20 minute study and you read it in two or three minutes, speed reading a book. And we were pretty smart. We can do that, we know how to do that. But we tend to approach the EEG that there was a mantra in training years ago when in doubt, call it normal and so well, there was nothing really grossly abnormal. We use that term a lot in neurology. Neurological exam was grossly intact.

10:47

That's disgusting and I don't want if I go to a cardiologist and they're checking me out, I don't want them to say his heart was grossly intact, their lungs were grossly intact. Okay, that means your car, when you go to the mechanic, is grossly intact. It's like it's a shame kind of what we do in my profession, but that's another, you know, trying to help us be healthcare providers.

11:12 - Michaela (Host)

So, if it's abnormal but it's not within the, you know, category of what they know abnormal means, then it's just considered grossly normal?

11:28 - Dr. Turner (Guest)

Probably Okay. When in doubt, call it normal.

11:31 - Michaela (Host)

Okay.

11:32 - Dr. Turner (Guest)

And one of the analogies I make, which, in my analogies, help me conceive of things, but I don't know if they always help other people, but if you have some problems, you go see a heart doctor and the heart doctor says: Michaela, let's see, you look a little hypertensive, it looks like your cholesterol's up, yeah, and blood pressure. So we're going to put you on some blood pressure medicine, some statins, some cholesterol medicines, okay. “Um, don't you want to do any tests?” No, we don't need to worry. Test, I can see it. And many times, although we do like tests in neurology, or in psychiatry, mental health: you look depressed, you look anxious. Here's your prescription.

12:19

Medicines can help, but we know in our society today we're not doing a good job with chronic illness and medicines are smarter than we are. That's why when you go on a medicine, the brain adjusts and you have to increase the dose and change medicines. But our brain, our nervous systems, our bodies are fundamentally electromagnetic. That's how we were created and we have the neurochemistry, the chemistry that's involved, but we're not primarily chemical beings. If somebody has a dopamine deficiency, you can help that with medication, but that doesn't really replace it. The best way is to help that nervous system become more healthy, so then it can take over and do what it was meant to do in the first place, or to get that. That's restoring health rather than patchwork quilting, disease management.

13:12 - Michaela (Host)

I feel like in our last conversation I took the whole electrical being thing. It really made me understand and to be able to put it into a picture of like - Oh yeah, it makes so much sense that, like our body's an electrical being, it's that is a form of communication that's happening. And then these you know, frequencies, these toxicants, like man-made frequencies that we're being exposed to, are also a form of communication and so our body recognizes it. But it's almost like you like what they were saying in that video that you sent me. I can't remember what her name was, but she was saying like it's like they're communicating, but it's they're like using a different dialect, and so then your body's getting super confused.

13:57 - Dr. Turner (Guest)

Well, and basic principle of physics. When you say electric, I extend that and it sounds more fancy and people think I'm smart, which is not the case, but we are electromagnetic. Whenever, in a sense, whenever there's an electric current, there's a magnetic field, electromagnetic.

14:16 - Michaela (Host)

Okay, will you explain that more. Like how is our body communicating?

14:21 - Dr. Turner (Guest)

Okay, well, you had the privilege of interviewing Dr. Kent Chamberlain who's amazing. He has helped me so much because he's one of those people clinicians, researchers that understands the science like I never will. But for the most part, when there's an electrical current as it's passing it generates a magnetic field, so nerves, when they get on your nerves it's actually electromagnetic. That's why all the things we do to typically test our bodies electroencephalogram, magnetic resonance imaging, for example, and electrocardiogram things like that because and so when there's when that occurs and in the brain those are called dipoles there's a direction that current travels, depending on the neurons and all that kind of stuff, and you can measure that with the EEG to some extent and magnetoencephalography which complements electroencephalography. The problem is electroencephalography, EEG, you can do anywhere in the world. Get a computer, get a solar panel, anywhere. Yeah, magnetic resonance, I mean magnetoencephalography. MEG is a whole different - It's like you can't put the MRI scanner or the MEG machine in your back pocket and move.

15:50

You need their multi-million dollar base. They require huge amounts to maintain on a regular basis. They're not everyday practice as far as like things like functional MRI. So you know, I'm trying to remember where we were going with that, but so the body communicates two ways okay linearly and non-linearly, and that's my understanding, because many things travel at the speed of light, and it's maybe not the speed of light, but when you have a instantaneous fright, it's instantaneous. You feel it in your gut, or something like that yeah tingle that isn't explained just by nerve impulses.

16:40

So there's also other ways of transmission that can't always be measured. But if you talk about that in today's traditional allopathic health care system you're crazy, because if you can't measure it it's not real. You know, I wish everything was that black and white. And for instance, the meridian system and, as I've said, the wisdom of ancient chinese medicine, things in the meridian system, for how many thousands of years? I don't think they've been wrong for that long. We can go off and say it's not true, but it makes a huge amount of sense physiologically. So there's that kind of instantaneous transmission, electromagnetic transmission as well as like nerve impulses in the brain. We see all these things, the brain. Oh, I think I'm going to move. Oh, I moved my hand.

17:36

You know, we mechanize it that way and that makes sense. But there's other ways, so I don't have a good black and white. This is the way. You’re like it's more complicated than that, because it's electromagnetic and we're sitting in an increasingly radioactive fishbowl. It's affecting us, and the basic principle of physics is a near an electromagnetic body influences a nearby electromagnetic body or field, and we are an electromagnetic field and now we're exposed more and more so.

18:12 - Michaela (Host)

Yeah, it's, interesting to me that, like you know, you're learning about electromagnetic fields and frequencies when you're in school for neurology, right.

18:30 - Dr. Turner (Guest)

Nope, not really, not really. The best training people had is their high school and junior high and middle school science courses, where we're doing electromagnetic spectrum but not really we're taught electrical. But much of medical training is focused on pharmacotherapy, which is why when you go see a healthcare prescriber who also should be a healthcare provider, but often we get so busy and there's so many people to see and we have so much documentation you don't have time. So tell me what's going on. You have a headache? Okay, here's your prescription. Thank you very much, Michaela. See you next week.

19:03 - Michaela (Host)

Yeah.

19:04 - Dr. Turner (Guest)

Whoa, whoa, whoa. So we end up doing a lot of basic prescribing and so we're trained in fundamentals of neuropharmacology and pharmacotherapy and not, if you talk about electromagnetic therapies like pulsed electromagnetic radiation, neurofeedback, transcranial medic stimulation, which is getting to be a little more sexy and popular those are yeah, those are.

19:28 - Michaela (Host)

You don't really talk about those and you don't get trained on those in medical school.

19:32

You learn the science and then you learn how to speak that science and fit, it's just it's interesting to me that, like more people who would be in the field of neurology wouldn't make that connection like with with working with EEGs and stuff like that, that they wouldn't make the connection of like how EMF is affecting us on the outside. Because my mom had this. So my mom was a nurse and she said that she, whenever we were talking about this, she was like man, like I would help with EEGs all the time. And I never really put that together until later on in life that like we're electrical beings, and obviously all of these electromagnetic fields around us are engaging with us and are interacting with us, and you know, and plants and trees and animals you know everything else?

20:35

So when did you start actually like talking to your patients about that? Like, when did you start feeling comfortable with like this is a conversation that needs to be had? Like how long have you been talking to patients about?

20:45 - Dr. Turner (Guest)

That’s kind of a variation on the first question you asked. That I still didn't really answer very clearly but I'd say probably 15 years, wow, and I don't remember. As I've told you, I make up for my ability to remember things. I make up simple little acronyms and I just have a few of them. Like for healthcare, I tell people first and foremost as a healthcare provider, not just being a disease manager, putting out the fires, triage hospital, patch you up and send you back out. I want to provide healthcare and the fundamentals of health are meds. We've talked about that before. Moving, eating, disconnecting, sleeping, m-e-d-s. Moving activity, don't get the sitting disease, knowing how important mobility is for our whole system spirit, soul and body, not just physically. E for the eating, the brain, gut, that whole amazing connectome that absolutely influences the D for the disconnect and the S. So I talk about those and I don't remember when that was, if it was that time, but that's how I started talking to people and I felt like I evolved sort of into a health coach because I think what a physician should be.

21:58 - Michaela (Host)

Anyway, People learn how to teach people how to be well.

22:02 - Dr. Turner (Guest)

I don't want you to come back and keep seeing me. I want you to become your own health care provider. So you know, and we can try to maintain health, and that's. There's no guarantees.

22:12

Yeah, but if we keep doing the same thing over and over, expecting different results, here we are right yeah so probably 15 years when I look back at notes and because some of the recent writings have just been in the last few years, but it started being incorporating and as I, and it was about 15 years ago where I started doing a lot more investigation into quantitative EEG, which EEG is the squiggles, the electromagnetic stuff that we look at and then, but that is the matrix in a sense, and when you learn to read the matrix, that's giving you functional information about the brain and you can quantitatively analyze that data to produce those what are called functional brain maps.

22:57 - Michaela (Host)

Okay.

22:58 - Dr. Turner (Guest)

And those give you information about the power or the energy distribution in the brain, and when those things aren't working. When you mentioned connecting, it's all connected, like you mentioned, with neurologists and things. I think many times in our fractionated subspecialist world we live in today micro fellowships and I go into this sub-specialty we don't realize it's all connected and sometimes in our neurology world we sort of, as I say, we, we think the brain stops at the frame and magnum. Right there it's the brain, it's really connected. Spine nerves, it's all the spinal cord, you know, and so, and when we talk about the meds moving, good, healthy, we know exercise is healthy. We don't need any double blind, randomized, controlled studies to say exercise is good for you, right? Besides, you can't do that, you can only do that with a placebo. I always say show me a randomized, double-blinded placebo study. It exercises, good for you. How do you do that? How do you randomize blind somebody? You're exercising, you're not.

24:16 - Michaela (Host)

Yeah.

24:17 - Dr. Turner (Guest)

You can't do that.

24:21

And so often when people say with neurofeedback or other health care modalities or electromagnetic, show me the randomized double-blinded studies. The hard thing with that it took 30 to 40 years with the whole smoking nightmare back in the early part of the last century yeah from the 20s, 30s, 40s. When did the surgeon general's office finally publish their warning about smoking? 1964.

24:49 - Michaela (Host)

Wow.

24:50 - Dr. Turner (Guest)

What was published last year, which I think is more seminally important than not, that the smoking isn't important. We learned smoking. Guess what? It's not good for you.

25:02 - Michaela (Host)

Right.

25:02 - Dr. Turner (Guest)

Not against smokers. I know many smokers, it's okay, but we know it's not good. Here we are. Yeah, how many billions of cigarettes produced daily? Okay, we know. But knowing doesn't always change our behaviors, even if we know it's adverse. So last year the Surgeon General's office came out with the social media, which is they're not even addressing the EMF stuff.

25:24 - Michaela (Host)

No.

25:24 - Dr. Turner (Guest)

You know that.

25:26 - Michaela (Host)

Yeah, like talking about the mental health effects.

25:30 - Dr. Turner (Guest)

Mental health. And it said and I can show it on the slide.

25:34 - Michaela (Host)

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26:15

You can go to their website, Airestech.com, and check out some really amazing studies where they've done some EEGs to show how these devices are affecting your baseline brain activity. It's really, really cool. I personally have one on me right now near me, because I have my phone, my computer, my camera, everything going on all at once in an office building where everyone has their own Wi-Fi, so I don't mess around. Check them out, airestech.com. Use code INTUNE I-N-T-U-N-E 30 for 30% off your entire order.

26:44 - Dr. Turner (Guest)

When I do presentations, I talk about the history of what we didn't learn from smoking right, and who were the people advocating smoking? And not all of them were paid off by the tobacco companies. You know big tobacco, big pharma, big whatever, but who wouldn't want to smoke? There's your doctor, doesn't? He look happy?

27:03 - Michaela (Host)

I mean, you know, like the whole paying off thing, it's easy to start a movement when you have finances.

27:27 - Dr. Turner (Guest)

But it only needs to get kickstarted. Once it's kickstarted, now it becomes a belief, and then that belief just trickles in now magazines and are you know? Everyone's talking about it for free, everyone's talking about it didn't happen. And so there's plenty of intelligent, clear thinking, well-presenting clinicians and researchers and advocates that say this is the problem and we should be looking at this. In the meantime we're getting ready for 6g rollout. You know it's we keep doing it anyway. 1964 smoker right, we still get 6.5 million cigarettes produced a day, sold a day. Uh, anyway, it's a lot. So I usually talk about as an example the radium painters and if you see that movie, the radium girls, it's a pretty good movie. This was radiation and it was used for beauty products and it took years to uncover. And the people that experienced, the women that experienced the injury from that it took years and the physicians that tried to document that it was suppressed. Those people were humiliated if they survived, you know. And now we look back and go well, duh, can you believe they were doing radium painting on the watches? Like, but we don't realize they were getting sick because they were licking the paint brushes right.

28:59

Right, because they made the fluorescence, but it was also used in all kinds of beauty products. It was a big thing because it was also used in all kinds of beauty products. It was a big thing because it gave that glow. Radium back then was proclaimed medically harmless, just like cigarette smoking was. When you go back and look early on, it's pretty amazing. It was not only not harmful for you, it helped you. You thought better, everything tasted better.

29:27 - Michaela (Host)

Higher energy. You're like oh, yeah, yeah.

29:30 - Dr. Turner (Guest)

So there we were. So last year the Surgeon General's office produced and then you can get this on the Surgeon General's website. It's 20 pages or so, very well written and public domain. Where is this? On social media, they said, because they won't come out and say how bad it is, although just in the last week Dr Murphy, who's the surgeon general, has urged warning labels. Remember when they put warning labels on cigarettes?

30:06 - Michaela (Host)

I've seen this. Yes, they've been talking about this, about getting warning labels on social media.

30:11 - Dr. Turner (Guest)

Yeah, and warning labels on cigarettes. How well is that going to work? Okay, it's fine.

30:15

And the problem with cigarettes, not the whole world is smoking. Is there a person and how many billions of cell phones and everything else that we're exposed to? So this came out last year. In it states we, the surgeon general's office, cannot conclude social media is sufficiently safe for children and adolescents and outline immediate steps we can take to mitigate the risk of harm to children and adolescents. That's a big deal and it's well written. It's clear, there's a bunch of references and here we are and again the problem is they're addressing social media, which is absolutely huge, cyber bullying and all this stuff, but they don't take into account the blue light effect, which is one electromagnetic aspect, and then social media and all those other things come on the waves of electromagnetic radiation, which is you can't see it, smell it, taste it, touch it or hear it right and if you are one of those electromagnetically sensitive people that can sense any of that your doctor, they will send you where you can get help for that problem. And it's, you know, it's in your head. Well, the problem is, it is in our heads, right? We should learn from history, right? Well, here we are. So the evidence is compelling and I'm again gapping all over the place. But when I had this immense privilege that Dr Chamberlain let me come to the symposium at Yale a couple weeks ago, the EMF symposium hosted at Yale, yes, Yale and New Haven, big deal.

32:02 - Michaela (Host)

Legitimate place.

32:05 - Dr. Turner (Guest)

Hosted by the chairman of OBGYN, Dr. Taylor. Amazing who's who. By the way, the one of the best websites I point people to and we talked about this last time babysaveproject.org, If people want to do their own homework. I say babysaveproject.org because why am I, as a clinician, getting back to where did this all begin? When I go and I see more children with seizures than ever before and have presented that data at the International Against Epilepsy, at the World Congress of Neurology, with crickets in the audience but that's another story we have a problem with that exposure. You had the privilege of interviewing Dr. Chamberlain, who I got to know over the last year or two with the Physicians for Safe Technology. He's on that board and I wiggled my way into that, not to the board, but I want to connect and that gets into your question how did this all happen? Where it has connected me with the most incredible people around the world. But this is a worldwide problem.

33:13

So smoking. Not everybody's smoking, of course, maternal smoking, secondhand smoke we get all that. This is so much bigger when you look at secondhand radiation. So the symposium was an invited symposium, hosted by the Environmental Health Trust or funded, I guess, by the Environmental Health Trust. And what was amazing for me is the literature, the papers, the research studies showing the absolute scientific evidence of what electromagnetic radiation does at the cellular level, at the subcellular mitochondrial level, at our physiologic system levels. A bunch of the people that have been doing that research were there. It was amazing. And yet when you see the magnitude of what's happening in the world, it feels not just trying to swim against the current, but it feels a little bit more like trying to swim up a waterfall. That doesn't work unless you're in Narnia. At the end, if you ever read the book.

34:20

Read those to your kids. It's great at the end when they swim up the waterfall. But that's another story.

34:25 - Michaela (Host)

I think that's why this podcast is so important. And it was funny because, like people were like you're going to do a whole podcast on EMF. Like how are you going to have enough to talk about? I'm like, oh, there is enough to talk about. There's so many different aspects to talk about, even at the, you know, like the basic level of like environment versus like you know, health versus like. You know just that. But then it's like the impact socially, mentally, physically. There's so many things to get into. But yeah, everything.

34:58

I think it's so important to have this conversation because there's a very big disconnect from like just everyday people and, um, this conversation of EMF, like in the mainstream world. Like you know, you're just hopping on social media. Oh, you know you go into the local verizon store and you're like, hey, how do I turn my 5g off? They're like, why would you ever want to do that?

35:24

You know in like kind of the day to day that I experienced the, the, the conversation of EMF is still conspiracy. It's still tinfoil hat. It's still and, like you know, in my world it's a very normal thing to talk about. I do have a lot of friends that are concerned about it. I have a lot of people in my personal bubble, but when I go out into the world I noticed that this topic is still somehow maintaining this level of belief that it is, you know tinfoil hat, or whatever.

35:54

But what's so wild to me is how many legitimate scientists and researchers and medical doctors and neurologists and how many of these people who are actively doing research, who are actively reading and analyzing the research, who are actively talking about it and somehow it's not making it there, like there's a some kind of massive block. And what I feel like what's a really interesting point to make that I don't think we've made on any other podcast is and I really I really took this from you. I actually learned a lot from our last conversation but it's like the way that it transitions. It's not that we go from 1G to 2G to 3G and every transition is like a 20% better increase and we're getting you know, every single time we produce a new bandwidth, it's hundreds of 1000s of times different. Is that correct? I mean it's, it's extremely different.

36:59 - Dr. Turner (Guest)

So can I do it to you again for just a minute. So I've learned a lot. I've done graduate school and got 10 boards, and I love lifelong learning and all that. I am not a physicist, I'm not an extreme mathematician, I'm a nerd. But that's the difference. Yeah, I'm a nerd, and that's the difference.

37:21 - Michaela (Host)

Yeah, I'm a nerd.

37:23 - Dr. Turner (Guest)

We learned this back in elementary school, so when I do presentations, I like to use things that people might respect. Okay, NASA, that's a reasonably good source of information, I think.

37:35 - Michaela (Host)

Yeah.

37:37 - Dr. Turner (Guest)

And when we look at this, going from direct current zero Hertz frequency, so to speak, right as we go down or up the scale, depending how you look at that, and we get more electromagnetically, radiation, gamma and all these things down here, which is still well anyway, as we look at that, as you said, 2g, 3g, 4g, 5g, 6g coming, they don't go away and it's not well.

38:07

Two, so this is 50% more, so we'll call it three. This is four or five. It is exponential, it just doesn't go 0.3, 0.6, 0.9, 1.8. It's exponential, right, and the problem with that too. As I've told you, I think of interesting things sometimes and I don't know what that means, but if the last time growing up with some flying, when you go to the airport and you have to go through that, remember this picture right here, yeah, what's that called?

38:51

X-ray maybe have you heard it called x-ray in years? It's called the scanner oh, the scanner yeah it used to be called. You got to go through the x-ray machine. Yeah, yeah, that's true. Like you said, we changed we we tolerate it long enough or change the names, because that will neutralize things. Millimeter waves is the basic and again, can't Dr. Chamberlain and others can explain it so much more accurately. But millimeter waves are basically in the gigahertz rate, that's 5G.

39:25 - Michaela (Host)

So when we are in a 5G environment.

39:29 - Dr. Turner (Guest)

It does what it can do by penetration. Those are x-rays, in a sense, and so where is the cutoff between -

39:37 - Michaela (Host)

Sorry to interrupt you, where is the cutoff between non-ionizing and ionizing, Because it seems like we're right on the edge of it right now.

39:46 - Dr. Turner (Guest)

Yep, and that's really good. Thank you, because, as I was looking at this and of course over here we have ionizing radiation, non-ionizing radiation, right, and unfortunately, when you see some of the nay saying literature, if it's because they many of the things that even the world health organization other earlier research, it's, they were just looking at thermal effects, like if stuff heats up, then that's an effect, right, which is like saying the only effect from radiation for a brain tumor is the heat it produced. It's like yeah it makes sense.

40:29

So, and I've asked Dr. Chamberlain and other brilliant minds. No, this is the line. It's, like many things, it's a spectrum. Electromagnetic spectrum and the basics of my limited understanding. Ionizing means it has the potential or breaks carbon bonds right and non-ionizing doesn't so non-ionizing is still technically generating heat.

40:57

It's just not breaking bonds, so good point, and heat's part of it too, but it's it's like looking at frequency, but not here, like this with NASA. We have wavelength and frequency which are intricately tied in, inversely right. Okay, the faster the frequency, the shorter the wavelength. They're inversely proportional. But the key third component of those is related, I don't think I have a quick slide here but to the energy. Energy is the problem.

41:31 - Michaela (Host)

Okay.

41:33 - Dr. Turner (Guest)

Energy, that's what penetrates. Would you rather be by a gamma radiation source or would you rather stick your head in a microwave? Please don't take this out of context. That's not done. I don't recommend doing that. But I would kid with kids sometimes in the office and I said, because microwave non-ionizing radiation, that's wild, would you? So I would ask hey, Johnny, whatever would you stick your head in a microwave?

42:09 - Dr. Turner (Guest)

Amd they go like, no Doc, of course not, but that's not nice.

42:26

Non-ionizing radiation, right, it's still along the spectrum. And 5g, and Dr. Chamberlain and others, as you have future speakers, can go over that much more. The key with the wavelength and the frequency is that third component this doesn't show up real well called energy. When and so as you go down this picture to higher and higher frequencies, then you get more and more energy. Energy penetrates. That's why 5g, that's why millimeter waves, that's why the scanner is the x-ray machine you can see through. So when we're in a 5G environment it's penetrating into us at least three centimeters or more, sometimes up to five or six.

43:17

Three centimeters is a lot, it is up to five or six, three centimeters is a lot. It is, yeah, especially when you look at this and it's talking about six to seven, two to three inches. So we're literally saturated. And then when we use devices, even, as you know, in airplane mode doesn't turn everything else off. You still have the multiple.

43:38

When you look at any phone, you and all that's written in the descriptions with the phones. When you go into the legal and regulatory, which nobody looks at, that's where it talks about the electromagnetic radiation, the specific absorption rate and all those kinds of things. So I'm not trying to make a conspiracy, but when you have a three gigahertz frequency and that wavelength, the micro electron volt energy is a big deal. And then when I think about the developing babies, where do and where are we doing our electromagnetic use along what I? And I won't do too many slides, as you know, because we have a 306 and you know what I can do. But when we look at our electromagnetic axis as electromagnetic beings brain, spinal cord, cardiovascular, cardiopulmonary system, gut, general urinary, endocrine systems right, why, at least with the accurate numbers that I'm trying to find, one in five couples are infertile. Now.

44:51 - Michaela (Host)

Yeah.

44:53 - Dr. Turner (Guest)

Well, look at it and you know all these things. So we're talking about the same stuff, but that's where we use our devices more along those most sensitive electromagnetic organs.

45:02 - Dr. Turner (Guest)

I personally think that sudden cardiac death, which is increasing dramatically, is directly tied, at least in part, if not significantly, by anthropogenic man, human-made electromagnetic radiation. And when have we ever been exposed? Can you imagine growing up with your little TV? If you took your TV in your room, and your parents let you do that and put it right by your head and you watch TV all night.

45:31 - Michaela (Host)

Yeah.

45:31 - Dr. Turner (Guest)

We do that stuff or we have it right by admitting. So, why are we having gut problems? Why are we having general urinary problems, all that kind of stuff.

45:43 - Michaela (Host)

It's so completely wild and I really want to like highlight this one more time again in a different way. But because the other thing is not just so the exponential growth between 1g, 2g, 3g, 4g, 5g is significant. It's not just like a small, it's not a straight line. The other thing that we haven't really talked about either is that they don't turn 5G on and then turn 4G off. They don't turn 4G on and then turn 3G off. It's all culminating.

46:12

It's all there just stacking on top of each other, so like we might even be having you know which you know. Dr Kent really broke down the FCC safety limits and how ridiculous they really are and what they're based off of, the effect of all of these different frequencies, like being just left as we're continuing on, like what's going to happen as we keep bringing more and more of these new bandwidths.

46:54 - Dr. Turner (Guest)

Wally.

46:55 - Michaela (Host)

What is that, Sorry?

46:58 - Dr. Turner (Guest)

So the movie. 2008. Have you watched it? It is a scarily prophetic movie 2008. In in wally. Of course, it's the scorched earth. It’s a Pixar which is kind of fun. But the devolution of the human race. So they're on a spaceship, but they've left the earth on the spaceship where they live out generations, and you see, this devolution they're not exercising, so they're being scooted around in electronic vehicles. You know they've lost bone structure, so they sit in their chairs. Their food is brought to them in liquid form.

48:06

So they get to drink, they have screens that they communicate even if they're sitting next to each other. So if you can make yourself watch through it with your husband, it's so scarily prophetic, and that's 15 plus years ago. And it's much more now. But you're correct, the additive effect and Dr Chamberlain can so much more eloquently do that it just doesn't switch. It's not like we gave up. We still have 8-track and 33 and a third and then beta and vhs, you know yeah no, yeah, they go away.

48:47

They're gone and with it, but that's not the case with electromagnetic, you know and I like the term, Dr. Weller and others use it anthropogenic emR, electromagnetic radiation, because we are electromagnetic beings that live in an electromagnetic universe that is increasingly electromagnetically toxic.

49:12 - Michaela (Host)

Wait. So why did you say anthropogenic?

49:14 - Dr. Turner (Guest)

So anthropogenic.

49:16 - Michaela (Host)

What does that mean?

49:17 - Dr. Turner (Guest)

Genos from the Greek. When you look at the root words that mean genus, from the, the greek.

49:25 - Dr. Turner (Guest)

Anthropos is the greek word for human. Okay, a little more male, but that's not quite androgen, so we're not dealing with gender bias, thank god. Anthro anthropos is the greek word, anthropos is human okay anthropogenic made, created by man so man-made or human-made.

49:47

I guess we can't even use the word human sometimes because it's got man in it, but anyway, it's the derived stuff and we've known for what 15 years, and I think that one of the first national geographic podcasts came out in 2013 or 14 about the change in mammalian migration habits and things caused by human derived, anthropogen, anthropogenic, electromagnetic radiation. So, yeah, it's and it affects and, as I say sometimes if I do it in a workshop or a lecture, I have not seen a bird with a bluetooth on lately, other than the ones we might put on to track them. But yeah, I'm seeing a bird with a bluetooth and I haven't seen a bear with a wi-fi connection in their den have you? And they're being affected.

50:42

And here we are immersed. And another analogy, analogy, comparison, whatever is it's like, nuclear energy is amazing. Nuclear energy can empower the world and or destroy the world how we use it. Electromagnetic science, electromagnetic energy can do the same. You know it, we need it. It's healthy. We need our electromagnetic universe to sustain life the incredible way it's done for so long. But we're interfering with that and so yeah, Wow.

51:24 - Michaela (Host)

So at the symposium did they have any like kind of hope for the future or did they have any ideas for how we could kind of shift directions, Like if everyone, if everyone were to wake up tomorrow and be like, okay, pause up tomorrow and be like, okay, pause.

51:47 - Dr. Turner (Guest)

This is it. Like. What is the direction that they would you now go? Good, good question.

51:51 - Michaela (Host)

You always ask good questions.

51:54 - Dr. Turner (Guest)

You want an answer. I don't have an answer. So, as I said, for me personally, with these truly world experts, it was amazing and collaborating and sitting and talking with them over meals and our workout breakout groups and stuff.

52:10

It was amazing and of course they loved having me there because I'm an MD, you know, but somebody, I think, that understands we are electromagnetic beings living in electromagnetic universe. It's increasingly electromagnetic toxic. So what can we do about it? And if we all woke up tomorrow or today, hopefully, yeah that and said, okay, it's time to change, yes, it could change, it could mitigate, even like the social media warning that the surgeon general it's, it's we need to find, act immediately to mitigate the harms that are already occurring.

52:45

Right If we can eliminate them. Could we go back? Because we're not going to go back to a pre-EMF, we're not going to get rid of 2G, 3g, 4g, 5g, 6g and who knows what else.

52:55 - Michaela (Host)

Yeah, you can't just wipe the slate clean.

52:57 - Dr. Turner (Guest)

Incredible tools Like I said the the two most toxic place, EMF toxic places on earth airports and hospitals. You want that to be used for good. The problem is you can't separate it. They come with a risk, they come associated and using it also has potential human risk and all the known documented side effects of artificial electromagnetic wi-fi radiation yeah what were you saying?

53:27

So if we woke up and said what can change? The simplest thing first is awareness. And we're not aware, as you well know. And so, although I was all inspired and amazed at being a part of this symposium with these people, on the other hand, sometimes, when I would go back to the room and talk to my wife in the evening, or it was like, it was like what do we do yeah?

53:56

it's discouraging because here's the world experts. We know this stuff, it's. It's not a conspiracy, it's, it's real stuff. And remind me to talk about the precautionary principle, because that's one of the most important things that I want to leave a point on okay, and these people have been doing this for years. These aren't spring chickens and they're doing incredible work and they've been doing it a long time and, as you said, against it's swimming, against a tsunami, it's swimming up the waterfall. It's like the current, wherever that current's coming from, is so tough, is so tough. And to get people to be. Usually people don't get a recognition unless something triggers them into it.

54:49

For me, thankfully, it wasn't personal health loss or health disruption, but it was for all these patients and eventually, when this the typical things that we do in healthcare weren't working, and then discovering, oh, this whole electromagnetic radiation kind of makes sense as at least a part of the problem.

55:11 - Michaela (Host)

Yeah.

55:12 - Dr. Turner (Guest)

And many. I don't remember when the principle started to be talked about, but one of the things as humans or as parents, the precautionary principle is if, when, in doubt, don't. That's my dumb it down summary and you've probably heard about that. The precautionary principle If there's not clear, cut evidence that something is without harm. Be cautious, precautionary principle, especially as we get younger, in pediatrics, in the developmental, the formula, developmental years, and so many of the parts of the brain are still developing into the 20s and 30s. But we're all taught you know 20s and you're kind of that's it, you're dead.

56:02 - Dr. Turner (Guest)

So that's why I'm still running and learning languages and all kinds of other things. I feel like I'm going to keep doing this.

56:08

So, the precautionary principle. And here we are, where we assume. You know what happens when we assume that well, of course it's safe. Or they would have told us, and the FDA or whatever organization that approves the national toxicology center, all these places would, would obviously tell us the truth so we can trust what they say. And we don't learn from history radium painters, the whole 30, 20, 30 years with this whole smoking and the research, because back then you could find papers that were showing how good smoking was for you, maybe often funded, yeah, outside. So any paper you read you always have to look at funding and bias and I'm a human so I'm biased.

57:01

One other thought that popped in a little while ago, when you talk about the evidence and the hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of papers and you're not going to find a randomized, double-blinded study. But lately there's been what I've learned when I did my master's in clinical research you can prove anything you want from the literature. That's how we talk about in academia. Well, the literature says so, the literature. You can prove anything you want. And there are studies, the acute and some colleagues in the epilepsy and neurology world, the acute cell phone. You can find studies that do an acute study and say, well, there's no evidence that the cell phone is making any changes, right, and those are short term, right, yeah, I mean. And you can find others that say it is.

57:55

I mean, it makes sense in the old days, before they did better improvement with the screens. You could put your phone by the computer screen and you would see a sort of deformation in the screen from the magnetic field. I don't know if you remember that, but that was yeah, I've seen some.

58:10 - Michaela (Host)

I've also seen some youtube videos lately where people can like light a light bulb with their like a little led light with their phone. Have you seen that?

58:20 - Dr. Turner (Guest)

Depending how you want to believe, “oh yeah, that's just done with Photoshop or whatever,” right? so whatever. But the papers, there's no effect. And again, that might be true. It depends on their methods and how they do the studies. To me, if you hold a radioactive admitting device close to you, common sense. But when I see the short term, because there's acute, like somebody getting radiation therapy for a tumor- right.

58:52

And then those people many of those will have long term effects from that radiation, even though they're still not getting the radiation. But these acute effects, if there's no effect in some of these studies, to me it's kind of gathering a whole group of healthy volunteers and putting them in two different groups and letting one group smoke three packs a day for a month and at the end of that month acute exposure. They didn't get cancer, so it's okay. They didn't develop emphysema. They didn't develop severe bronchitis, so smoking's okay.

59:34 - Michaela (Host)

There's no ill effects, it's all how you design your studies. You can make anything look the way you want it. Yeah, a big part of what we want to do with the way forward is like really educate people on how to do your their own research, because you know that's such a big thing like do your own research and come to it. But it's like don't be doing like Instagram research. You need to actually learn how to digest the study. So my my husband, he went to school for environmental science and a lot of what he does at the lab in our city is digest research. So that's kind of who I'm learning through is like, hey, help me figure out. What is this actually, what is this actually saying? But that is such a big part of like people not really know it and that's what's so difficult is like they're getting all of their information from you know, whatever source of news or outlet or whatever they're watching.

01:00:21 - Dr. Turner (Guest)

Yeah, I mean, I just saw the news, and I was like really, media feed will feed exactly, ultimately, what you've been looking at, so it biases us just by the feed.

01:00:34 - Michaela (Host)

I saw, I was like - it was like really promising at first because I was really excited. They're talking about EMF and they were like you know, people on social media are raising concern about EMF with airpods and blah, blah, blah. And then they have this doctor come on and say you know well, we won't know what will happen 10 years from now of you using your airpods every day. But, as of right now, the research doesn't say anything.

01:01:05 - Dr. Turner (Guest)

They piggyback statements like that to make this one sound true, which is obviously the only way you can make a statement like that is if you've read every piece of pertinent literature.

01:01:19 - Michaela (Host)

But also saying like I mean basically the message was it's safe because we don't have any literature saying it's not safe. But he's literally saying, and I'm like how are people just watching this and not putting the pieces together of someone saying, “Well, we don't know what this is going to do to your children.”

01:01:40

These, I see kids that are four, I see literally like small children walking around with AirPods in their ear all the time and stores, and you know like it's kind of a social thing now and and it's like we don't know what's going? To happen in 10 years, but as of right now, it's fine.

01:01:59 - Dr. Turner (Guest)

Precautionary principle. I don't know if you'll record this - “Screw it” principle. Yeah, you know it, it, uh, smoking again. Right now I'm doing okay with smoke. I don't smoke Right, but I it's been okay. So 10 years maybe it's a problem, but right now it looks okay. So kind of like you know the hurricane's coming. Forecast is there category five, it's coming, looks okay for now, so we'll wait a little longer oh, I learned that lesson I had.

01:02:32 - Michaela (Host)

Um, oh, my gosh. This is a total side note, but I had my son's third birthday at a pizza place in in Temple and, um, you know, a friend messaged me and was like, hey, it looks like there's gonna be some like really big rains that come on in a little bit. And I'm like, oh, it's looking fine now. And so we set up outside, within 30 minutes, tornado sirens going off. And then within another 20 minutes, everyone in the building was hiding in the bathrooms of the restaurant covering their children as a tornado came through and it was like, okay, whoa, like we did not need to be here. But I mean, it was one of those things where it's like could be bad weather, oh, nevermind, it's a tornado.

01:03:18 - Dr. Turner (Guest)

Yeah, I mean. And weather is a good analogy because there's a lot of parallels in geophysics science to what's going on electromagnetic science yeah and the storms, the, the predictable unpredictability of tornadoes, right, I think this is a hurricane, you know, earthquakes we're not still very good at predicting earthquakes, right, and after quakes, hurricanes, they're relatively good, obviously, the closer it gets. The thing that I have seen is the predictability. What are known side effects from radiation therapy? And I mean radiation therapy for some type of cancer, things like that right, and the reason I started looking down this realm is some years I don't know how many years ago, five, seven years ago I stumbled onto or was led to the literature that is widespread on what happened from Chernobyl and Chernobyl was 1986, 1987, multiple disasters.

01:04:25

We call it the Chernobyl disaster big radiation disaster right and long-term effects on the radar, no pun intended, and we know about it. But they started studying the survivors long-term, as well as the cleanup workers. They call them liquidators and they've tracked those people until they died for years and still are. And one of the things they use to track physiologic measures, exams, all kinds of tests, imaging, was EEG and so 30 years ago there's literature of what was published, of the EEG findings they described in people post Chernobyl.

01:05:13

Now again, that's a huge nuclear disaster, a different place along the electromagnetic spectrum right but it's still a spectrum and the environmental electromagnetic radiation that existed 30 years ago is incredibly different than the 24/7/365 increasing electromagnetic radiation we're facing every day. So to me they're related, even though we're in a different part of the spectrum. Apart from that, we already talked about why ionizing, non-ionizing isn't a break, isn't a crucial point. So I had noticed, going back to my aha's moments, that you asked at the very beginning of this interview, that the EEG changes that I've been seeing more and more over the last 15-20 years. Why is that? Am I reading more incorrectly? Am I doing EEG wrong or is it really? And as I try to keep testing myself on the findings that I'm seeing, it makes sense EEGs are more abnormal and that's correlating with more neurological and multiple system problems in humans, in pediatrics in particular.

01:06:32

But this literature. They studied the individuals that were exposed to Chernobyl, that survived and the cleanup workers three to five years after the disasters and 10 to 13 years after, and they've been studying them ever since. But they did it with EEG and they have papers not published in any what Americans would consider reputable journals. One of the best articles was published in the Spanish Journal of Psychology about EEG, because that's where these authors, because the Chernobyl is in the Ukraine. So this is all in the Russian Ukrainian literature. I mean, that's where a lot of this came from and published didn't make it into our high level right.

01:07:19

American publishing. So EEG changes and they describe these and I came across these papers and it was the same features that I have been seeing and it was like is this a coincidence?

01:07:33

Or is there some parallel? And so I've been continually tracking the working with that, with the papers and what they saw, because there's acute effects which they have early, and they're working with that, with the papers and what they saw. They call them the first three to five years, and then there's the late effects, 10 years and beyond, and we know radiation produces early and late effects in different degrees. So then I started looking at the literature. What does radiation therapy do? It's amazing how there is some, but there's not that much. It's like when people have to go and they have cancer and they're getting radiation therapy, are you going to argue with your doctor about the side effects, like you need radiation for your cancer, you just suck it up.

01:08:16

So I organized it by major organ systems. Then I took the existing literature, which is far, far more Wi-Fi radiation over the last really 60 plus years, but even more. And it did it in the same system, categories, body systems that we sort of divide in the health in medicine and similar well-documented symptoms, and more caused exclusively by electromagnetic radiation. I'm not saying that, but it's definitely as you said at the beginning, it's everywhere, it's part of the picture, and so this is where and I presented this at the symposium, wanting to get feedback from these world experts like show me where the flaws show. I don't want to be in a delusion any more than I might be about this. If I'm, if this is making sense to me and it makes sense when I go into the hospital, when I take care of kids and when I try to help them how do we mitigate, how do we start to reverse this? Because when somebody is 60 years old, they've been smoking their whole life and they get diagnosed with their first lung cancer and then they stop smoking.

01:09:37

But yeah, your body's already full of trash, you know, and the same thing as you said. What if we all woke up tomorrow and said do we realize this problem? What are we going to do about it? And so I saw these symptoms and then that led to I'm, you know, me and acronyms, the meds acronym and the CIRS chronic and adequate restorative sleep. So I made up another acronym called the basics, and none of these are fancy, I'm not going to copyright them.

01:10:13

Yeah meds and basics, but they described 30 years plus ago in the literature and what I've been seeing in the EEG are any one of these or any combination of these findings are more and more in EEGs across the board and I read a lot of EEGs with a lot of clinicians and they're seeing it too, or they're just nice and humoring me. I hope that's not the case.

01:10:37

We're seeing it because if you see a change, you see elevated fast activity. You see this EEG and on my screen and I can't show it to you now because that's patient information EEG on this young lady here and six months later and her EEG is slowing down. She's 20. That's not supposed to be happening.

01:11:00 - Michaela (Host)

Yeah.

01:11:01 - Dr. Turner (Guest)

And then other aspects where the EEG slows compared to what you would expect for a neurotypical EEG. And then the evolution of what are called spikes, and why are we seeing more seizures worldwide? And then the whole problem with our whole circadian system, which you could see in EEG, but then that's a whole nother issue. So I made up that acronym and that's what I hope to be publishing in the next year or two, and collaborating with people and not trying to put out stuff that I'm going to have to publish in the Spanish Journal of Psychology, which is a journal. Yeah, that's why I'm trying to stay engaged with the international epilepsy and neurology community, even though, as you alluded to, most of us, most of us in that profession, are so busy, I think, and when the triage hospital, putting out the fires and trying to find the right pharmacologic solution for a problem.

01:11:57

We have a rich allopathic system, right, pharmaceutical surgery. I call it drugs and dissection, d&d, not Dungeons and Dragons, that's kind of where we live. But there's a whole world of healthcare that is in addition to that allopathy, that sort of narrow thing. And if that's where we live drugs and surgery that's why when people keep going back to their prescriber. I'm having this problem. Okay, it got a little better and so we increase your medicine. It didn't work. Okay, we're going to switch medicines, we're going to add medicines and we do.

01:12:28 - Michaela (Host)

It totally makes sense how that happens, because it's like, you know, it's like once you get your degree and you find a job, then it's mostly that you're just kind of in this endless cycle of seeing patients and needing to get to the next patient and you don't have time, then filling out your files after you've seen your patients.

01:12:48

Yeah, you have no time. So it's it's like you know one thing that I learned kind of going through, you know, having babies and all of that is like okay, just because someone has like a you know an awesome, like MD in front of their name or you know whatever, it doesn't necessarily mean that they know what they're really doing anymore, because they haven't been consistently learning. It's like you want to find a doctor who is going to continue learning and continue.

01:13:20 - Dr. Turner (Guest)

Yes.

01:13:21 - Michaela (Host)

Instead of I mean I, I mean I get why it happens because of like the way that the medical system is set up, it's just keeping you so busy that you're just kind of like everything that you learned in school is implemented. You kind of get into the rhythm where you really start to get it, like okay, when they have these symptoms, you prescribe this, and when you have this, you prescribe that, and like you just get into that rhythm and then it's really hard to get out especially as it's busier and busier and you have to see more and more, faster and faster.

01:13:51 - Dr. Turner (Guest)

Right, and it's not really related to this whole topic, but burnout is huge and burnout is in icd-9 and put in icd, the international coding and diagnostic which is used worldwide, different, different countries but countries. But ICD-10, icd-11, burnout has become a code because and and I get it because I've been at burnout or close to burnout, where you're just so busy and there's more and you got to produce more because you're getting, they're getting reimbursed less blah blah blah and it's a problem.

01:14:25

And physician suicide not that it's not an issue elsewhere in other professions and things, but that's a big issue in our country in particular. And then again, being a person in recovery, it's a big deal and burnout happens. And when you mentioned that and you have friends in the healthcare world and I see it with colleagues all the time, you don't have time typically to do all the documentation, the electronic health record.

01:14:55 - Michaela (Host)

Yeah, I was just talking to someone who's brand new in the medical industry and they were saying how hard it is to find the time to finish all the documentation.

01:15:06 - Dr. Turner (Guest)

No, it's not, it's just you ain't going to do it during the day, cause if you do that, you get behind. Shouldn't use the bad grammar, but you get behind. And if you have to see these number of patients, like I remember at our institution when one of the family medicine docs, they were limited, they had to basically turn patients around every 12 minutes and they were expected to see them, examine them, get the history and do their documentation in the 12 minutes.

01:15:35

Can't do that, or? Um, if I was doing this the whole time? Yes, I'm paying attention. Go, go ahead.

01:15:43 - Michaela (Host)

I'm listening yeah.

01:15:45 - Dr. Turner (Guest)

Yeah, right, okay. And how old were you then? Like, okay, wait, are you a man? Oh, wait, you're a woman, okay, nevermind. And I tell people, do that at the dinner table, go sit around the table and then get your phone out and tell them you're paying attention, like it. But that's what we're kind of forced to do and it's not working. And most people that go into health, health care fields do it because they want to help people, and so that human connection, which is still pretty cool.

01:16:15

We can at least do it over zoom and other electronic media. It's so much better in person, right? You lose so much that way yeah but it is possible to do it. And it has to be possible because if you don't finish your documentation, you get penalized by your institution or your office and your records get flagged.

01:16:34

And I remember years ago at the institution I was at, they started putting in report cards at the end of every week and people that didn't have the right grades over time every quarter, then they would start subtracting from their salary if you didn't have the high enough grade because you didn't complete it. So it makes you do this so you can have it done, and people get burned out doing that. So what I know with many colleagues is they like the old days of charts. They go home, do whatever their evening stuff with the kids, maybe put the kids to bed and then you get wonderful time with your spouse, right? No, you get on the computer and you start doing your notes and three to four hours and you don't get paid for that and yeah quick analogy.

01:17:19

Again, this is off the topic, but you step up but it's good.

01:17:22 - Michaela (Host)

I feel like it's good to understand because you know we can have our opinions and you know, especially in my world. You know you start talking about the medical industry, industry and we can have quite the conversation sitting at the table, talking smack about it. But also I feel like it's important to understand the people and how it happens to them and and like how the system is just not set up for really good growth.

01:17:52 - Dr. Turner (Guest)

Yeah, electronic healthcare was developed with good, a good idea, a good vision, right, ultimately. No matter where you went in the world, your electronic healthcare system is there with you. Any state you go to any hospital, any provider, they don't communicate. Often they don't communicate within the same institution. It's a concern because burnout is huge. Then you're up late, you're on a screen and then you go to bed and you get up and you do it again. And that's that can ultimately be burnout and discouraging. Because we, how many people like I I got accepted to med school.

01:18:37

Yeah, I got my residency at at a top one ivy institution. I'm so glad, you know they're not Eeyore at that point. Eeyore comes later. So, yeah, and so that's the human element too. And then when they're doing that, they're on the computer, they're in the electromagnetic environment. Their sleep is not what it's supposed to be. And then we go to work the next day, unless you're on call, and then you're up for part of the night, so you get disruptive sleep and then you're supposed to function at 100 through the day. It's just, it's a broken system and it feels like it's we the analogy I've made: I want somebody because I'm not an artist. I want somebody to paint a picture. The vision I have is a picture with a field and in that field are fires. It's like the hospital and there's people getting burned and injured and the healthcare people are running all over the place trying to put out the fires, bandage the people and then get them away from the fire. In the meantime, there's a wall and on the other side of the wall is an entire army with fire arrows and they're continuing and the army's coming in and they're firing the arrows over and nobody's stopping the arrows.

01:19:57

And they're just busier and busier. Patch them up, get them out, patch them up, get them out, patch them up, get them out, patch them up, get them out, patch them, get out, and it works for a while and then they come back to the ER. This medicine put you on this medicine for the seizures. Okay, come back to the ER because you have more seizures. Okay, we increase the medicine and it's like it's it's. I don't think hippocrates and others have that vision with health.

01:20:23 - Michaela (Host)

Right yeah.

01:20:25 - Dr. Turner (Guest)

Here we are.

01:20:26 - Michaela (Host)

I'm interested, like with, with the symposium happening, like at Yale, with all of these. I mean, they're also professors, right, some of them.

01:20:34 - Dr. Turner (Guest)

Yes, absolutely yeah, so are they?

01:20:37 - Michaela (Host)

Talking about EMF, like in their classes now.

01:20:41 - Dr. Turner (Guest)

I don't think so.

01:20:42 - Michaela (Host)

Okay.

01:20:43 - Dr. Turner (Guest)

And again, my scope was narrow there because we did met each day in a different location and so it wasn't like Dr Taylor had the was given the Taj Mahal to present for all these international people coming in.

01:21:02 - Michaela (Host)

So yeah, I'm interested to see at what point, or if there will be a point, that that becomes part of the education.

01:21:12 - Dr. Turner (Guest)

I would love to see that. Like what electromagnetic spectrum I mean? No, let's study pharmacology. Yeah you want to study electromagnetic medicine? Yeah, that's like for nerds, right?

01:21:25 - Michaela (Host)

That’s not real yeah, okay, so let's go through meds really quick one more time, because I think that, like people listening to this is, you know, the question is always like okay, well, what do I do if there's not really a clear plan for how we're going to approach it? Now that it's all been deployed, now that we're in the microwave, we're in the experiment, everyone wakes up, everybody knows about it, but like -

01:21:51 - Dr. Turner (Guest)

What do we do? You know?

01:21:52 - Michaela (Host)

yeah, I think the best thing you can possibly do is just strengthen your body's ability to contend with all of it. So go through your, go through your meds analogy one more time.

01:22:08 - Dr. Turner (Guest)

Well, and again what you said, a good thing. Resilience and resistance. Maybe those aren't the two good R words but resilience.

01:22:17

You when I have the practice and I'm working with families and they say I want to help us be. I want to be a healthcare provider, healthcare coach, and happen to specialize in the nervous system and all that. So we're going to use this meds approach as a healthcare. And what I found is when people, it's kind of intuitive as well. If somebody has a significant BMI and horrible cardiovascular problems and blood problems and they start to make substantial changes in their lifestyle, guess what? It's going to improve to some degree right With or without pharmaceuticals. And so living health, as I said before, it's not a guarantee. There's no. You do these things and you will live till you're 110. You'll never have disease like.

01:23:11

Welcome to the world right so the meds is move, eat, disconnect, sleep. prescribing meds. So what does moving involve? One, like I mentioned earlier, when I put the desk down, I stand. Usually when I'm at the desk working in the morning and then the afternoon, I love to sit down, so that moment when you're like yes when I'm reading.

01:23:37

You know I do my stuff in the morning go for a run or whatever, but moving because the sitting disease I think they came up with that term in about 2012. Sitting is not good for us really spirit, soul and body but physiologic parameters and a lot of clinicians understand that. So how can we be more mobile? And you?

01:24:02

know, this doesn't count as mobility, this is not cardiovascular exercise, right? So moving and then eating, the brain, gut and I don't know. Nutrition, and you look at our, the MAD, the SAD, standard American Diet, sad there's other acronyms it's like the problem is it's much cheaper to eat poorly and, if you want to, or it's much quicker to eat poorly, usually the things that take preparation. So the whole eating, healthy, eating, green, drinking, plenty of water, all the things, because we're whatever 85%, whatever percent, huge percent of us is water, right, so we want to replace that. So those are just things of basic physiologic parameters. I'll skip the D the S, sleeping.

01:25:04

We have, long before COVID, a pandemic of sleep, chronic, inadequate, restorative sleep, key point, restorative and we're not very good at estimating our own sleep except when it's bad and sometimes when it's good, plus the sleep environment. You know about the sleep sanctuary. We sleep, we think we sleep, and I still run into people the phones under the bed or under the pillow or right on the side of the bed. You know the routers outside the bedroom, the smart meters outside the bedroom, the, the booster. You know all that sorts of stuff. It's not safe. It's an electromagnetically very toxic place, and yet I don't feel it. It must be okay.

01:25:47

This disconnect in the sleep is where I spend much of the time because people kind of moving. I get that I should be doing more shoulda, shoulda, shoulda I tell people avoid the shouldas. Yeah, because you end up shoulding all over yourself.

01:26:02 - Michaela (Host)

Anyway.

01:26:03 - Dr. Turner (Guest)

I hopefully that wouldn't have to be bleeped out.

01:26:06 - Michaela (Host)

No, you're good.

01:26:07 - Dr. Turner (Guest)

And then you know the health, but it's all it goes together. But the more we become addicted, consumed as we're doing digital things, we're typically sleeping less, typically not eating as well and typically not moving. So they're as you said, they're integrated.

01:26:27 - Michaela (Host)

They are so integrated in. And it's so wild how much you want to move your body when you're eating well and how much like you want to disconnect when you're feeling good because you've been eating well. And it's amazing how you’re like because I've been in ruts where I'm working because I work from home and I'm grateful to be able to do that, be able to work from my computer and my phone and all the things. But sometimes I have days where I am like Whoa, it's like you know, I'm on it so much, then it disrupts my sleep and I kind of get in these weird loops where I have to like completely like you know, objectively, look at it and be like okay, this is not healthy, this is not a good example, this is not all the things, and kind of start again. So it's like for me, the very first place I start is disconnecting because, yeah, it's the very first thing that I do, I'll go just like lay my body on the earth literally or take a really long shower, like for whatever reason. Showers really help like just balance me out.

01:27:25 - Dr. Turner (Guest)

But then are you okay?

01:27:27 - Michaela (Host)

Yeah, and then like, go for a walk, you know, like, move the body, go for a walk, and then you know it's, it's just amazing that like, it's like your body will start to communicate. It's like I don't want to eat the crap. It's like whenever I'm on my computer and you know, and then it's like you're just kind of snacking Cause you're like oh, I haven't gotten, I haven't eaten in six hours, I'm hyper-focused on something, hypervigilant and I forget to eat. So then I'm just like grabbing a snack, and so it happens to the best of us. I mean, I'm not saying I'm the best, but I'm saying it happens to the people who know. I've just seen it, I've seen it with my own eyes, I've experienced it with my own children and with myself, of like how, when you start doing one thing out of those four categories, your body starts to crave the other. You want to stay further away from your phone when you're feeling good, when you know, it's just really interesting.

01:28:25 - Dr. Turner (Guest)

I liked your “D,” the disconnect. I would add I never did Dungeons and Dragons so I don't know. But dnd disconnect and distance and they kind of go together so when you can't disconnect a distance is your friend.

01:28:39

Obviously, double the distance exponentially, decrease the exposure. We know it's basic, simple stuff. So, like when I have to carry my phone, I try to what? Do I need the bluetooth on? Do I need the cellular on? Whatever, you have to kind of understand this incredible tool we have and know how to use it safely. But like when I um go, it doesn't work with running. But like if I'm walking and I have to have my phone with me but it's not in my hands, I stick it in my back right pocket where there's hopefully the most padding potentially and it's furthest away from my heart. You know in the brain too. But distance is your friend. So like when I'm here, it's still at 18 inches away, but my phone is right here at the bottom of the computer but it's not on my lap.

01:29:28

And sometimes we can't completely disconnect. And but distance and disconnect D&D, those are great, and how much do they cost? Just the effort.

01:29:39 - Michaela (Host)

Yeah.

01:29:40 - Dr. Turner (Guest)

The awareness comes first and then the effort to make those things and, like you said, we're not perfect right times that I have, you know. I want to be able to turn it off. I can't. I'm on call so at least I keep it three feet away, a meter away as much as I can from where I'm sleeping, stuff like that one thing that I did not know, is that Dr Kent?

01:30:07 - Michaela (Host)

It's almost like talking about the distance, but from a different perspective as well, is I always thought that it would be better, for whatever reason, I always thought it would be better to not pull from my Wi-Fi and to pull from the cell tower. And Dr Kent said, no, like it's actually much better, if you're going to have your wifi turned on, to have everything turned off on your phone except for the wifi turn on wifi calling and your phone's going to use a lot less power to try to connect because it's closer than if you were to turn off your wifi connection and then try to connect to wherever your cell tower is, you know, the closest to your house.

01:30:46 - Dr. Turner (Guest)

And it's so erratic. That's correct. And yeah, wi-fi has been so much better at that and reminds me when we're in wireless here at home or somewhere, turn off your cellular. Well no, you've got, I gotta get calls, Just watch. Turn it off your cellular and you're in wifi. It works.

01:31:04 - Michaela (Host)

Right.

01:31:05 - Dr. Turner (Guest)

Exactly.

01:31:08 - Michaela (Host)

It's just little simple things like that that you can do Doesn't mean getting rid of the phone, or like if you're going to go on a road trip this is the other one that I got recently it was like oh duh, like if you're going to go on a road trip with your kids, you're going to have an iPad or something. If it's a long trip or something, pre-download all the movies so that they're not streaming the movies as you're, as you're driving. There's, there's just little things that as you start to really understand how it works because, like when he said it of the wi-fi stuff, I was like, oh duh, that totally makes sense. But sometimes you just need someone to to bring it to your awareness.

01:31:40 - Dr. Turner (Guest)

But yeah, I mean and how much did that cost?

01:31:43 - Michaela (Host)

Yeah, it's, yeah, nothing Free. Yeah, it's amazing. Or connecting to ethernet, and you know a lot of people can't do that. We really wanted to do that with our new place that we just lived in, but apparently we have to wait until they come down. I don't know exactly how it all works, but we have to wait until they come down our street with the ethernet.

01:32:05 - Dr. Turner (Guest)

Yeah, it's, and there's so much pressure against that. Now I mean, why would you not want the 5G? It's here, it's easy, it's right. Power is the wireless instant Now, don't instantaneously faster.

01:32:18 - Michaela (Host)

And the data it's so, but then there's not just the health concerns, there's like the security concerns, the environment. Yeah, it's. That's why I was like when, when we decided to do the podcast cause we were almost decided to do the podcast as more wellness associated like make it broader of a category and I was like, no, we got to just hone in because there are so many different topics in this one field to really get people to understand and I'm learning so much, it's so amazing how, even with how much I've been researching about it and trying to learn that, like you get little tidbits of information of like use your wifi when, and internal wifi calling and you know, pre-download, it's like, oh yeah, you need to start putting that on my list of things to do outside of unplugging my Wi-Fi when I'm not using it and basic things like that.

01:33:10 - Dr. Turner (Guest)

I get the emails from Aries Tech and stuff and it's, where is it here? But I'll read some of those. It was like there was months ago about 6G, the rollout of 6G, and some of the pictures were like scientific, futuristic, like horrible. But it's got such good educational stuff, let's read it you know, and how many people find that in their regular stream?

01:33:45 - Michaela (Host)

Right yeah.

01:33:47 - Dr. Turner (Guest)

We find it that you know children's health defense.

01:33:52 - Michaela (Host)

Yeah, we, we, we really try to send people there a lot. I'm like, please, guys partake in the conversation. Like we just opened up the opportunity for people to share their own EMF story, because I really discovered that, like, like you were saying earlier, I know your story didn't go that way, but the majority of people whose story that I or people who I talked to around EMF, their story evolves around how they just got really sick and they and they couldn't ignore that that was an issue.

01:34:19 - Dr. Turner (Guest)

Most people aren't interested in cancer. Right. They spend a whole lot of time researching it until they get it but that's what?

01:34:25 - Michaela (Host)

like my sister who's calling me now, like hey, how do we stop the cell tower for going up at the school and how do we do these things? She listened to one of those stories and was like those are my symptoms. This is what's happening to me like my ringing in my ears every time yeah.

01:34:41

So we just opened that up, kind of going beyond just the science and research but allowing people to come in and tell their stories. So if you guys are listening and you have a story to tell, go to wave.airestech.com and share your story, because we really want to create this place for people to really connect with each other. And then we're always sending people to the Environmental Health Trust, because the Environmental Health Trust is just like the nucleus of science. They have all the research and all the things you can participate in and everything like. The first thing I said to my sister was like you gotta, you gotta contact the environmental health trust, because Dr. Kent was just telling me that they help people fight the cell towers at schools yeah, they're doing that.

01:35:20 - Dr. Turner (Guest)

One of the lawyers that's affiliated. I mean it's amazing and they've wanted me to try to help with some of those. I just don't have the bandwidth or right, you know, from a legal get into those embroiled battles and I've done a lot of forensic stuff in the past and it's it's never a fun thing because it's but you can help a lot of people and it's. It's amazing how much how you have to fight this and um, but anyway, the the way it's awareness yeah like you're talking to Dr. Kent and others like, oh, I had no idea.

01:35:57

And that's when people hear this it's like what do you sell? You're trying to sell us all. You have those, those, those faraday devices.

01:36:03 - Michaela (Host)

Yeah they don't work.

01:36:05 - Dr. Turner (Guest)

First, start with the simple stuff. And it's not. You don't have to spend thousands and thousands of dollars to get your EMF paint. I mean you can. There's ways to do that sorts of stuff. But start when people come out of my office or whatever. When they talk to you it's like man, the fire hydrant just knocked me over low hanging fruit yeah. Yeah.

01:36:29 - Michaela (Host)

That's my. I learned that from my chiropractor. He's like, okay, well, what, what's the like? You know, I know you have a lot of ideas, you need all these testings, you know all the things, but what can you do today? And like, what's, what can you start with right now? I mean, that's the thing is, we all wait. We all wait for the tests, we all wait for the results. We all wait for when it's like we know we need to be, we know we need to be drinking more water, we know we need to be eating better foods, we know we need to be unplugging our wifi at night.

01:37:04 - Dr. Turner (Guest)

It's like these things where you know when you're going in. It's like don't wait for the results. You don't want to get them until you know and it's like start, just start.

01:37:08

For many of us that's what it takes we get to the point where, yeah, we're not shaken out of our place until we see something something happens or we go through, and again, it wasn't, thankfully, my personal medical issues, but it was what I saw with all the, the patients and the in the families that got me into this or catapulted me further and further. And it's, and it's close, like how, by being practicing what I call electromagnetic health, we know about dietary health and brain health, supposedly, and like exercise, mobility health, electromagnetic health, and each of those meds, m-e-d-s has a health component sleep health, sleep sanctuary, electromagnetic health, gut health and physical activity, mobile health, and as you would, and they feed on each other. You know, the more you do it, they're not separate entities, they're related. And so when you it's amazing, when people start straightening out some of the disconnect aspects, it's like they really are sleeping better and my gut's better and I I feel like not just sitting around on the Gerald day, it just yeah it's contagious in a good way yeah, well, thank you so much for being here thank you for all the time

01:38:32 - Michaela (Host)

Yes, you've given so much wisdom and I feel like so much of what I gained from our conversation last night has trickled into why I continue to be here and and go in and start the podcast. I really am passionate about the children aspect of all of this because it's like you know, when I really started to understand that, oh, we're not going to know what this, what the effects of this. I mean, we know we can have an idea and we can. We can, like you said, we can predict the the storm coming, but like we can predict the the storm coming, but like we're gonna see if we don't stop, then it's like we're gonna see our really the effects, like when our children start having children, because it starts in utero.

01:39:13 - Dr. Turner (Guest)

We're already there right. I think it's been long enough of a jet, yeah but what's happening is people just realize, hey, we're busier and busier, but we're so busy being busy we don't realize we're getting busier and busier, right, sicker and sicker, and we're not looking at the cause because we don't have time.

01:39:28

Right so exactly what you said, that's I think we're already the tsunami is beginning and talk to mental health providers and things around the world People that are doing trauma work and other things. You are not going to be wanting for patient appointments, it's the wait lists get longer with every provider, I know, because people aren't often getting the answers they need with their traditional or their physician or advanced provider. They're doing what they can. Here's what it is. Okay, let's try this medicine, this. It's just anyway. I'm going down that.

01:40:09

No, but yeah, it's true, there's simple steps to take. Like you said, low hanging fruit, start with a few things and the ripple effect is amazing and I saw that in my practice. You know that if people took it seriously enough and started, they would come back. I remember some families. One particular family, a very high, high family in Mount Pleasant, and their son was having horrible tics and been through much, multiple meds and multiple specialists and it said just they heard about the practice and kind of the vision Okay, all right, let's just try this. And even the son okay, we'll give it a try.

01:40:47

Two months later, by the time they came back, mom had already, on her own, weaned him off three of the five medicines that they've been prescribed.

01:40:58 - Michaela (Host)

You're like, not by my recommendation.

01:41:02 - Dr. Turner (Guest)

But they came back and said they were stunned. And what did I prescribe?

01:41:08 - Michaela (Host)

meds, you know meds, yeah not everybody gets that kind of response.

01:41:15 - Dr. Turner (Guest)

but let's work on health, and that's why I'm glad you're doing this. And when you called I, how long can I put this off? Okay, and then here we are. Not you personally, but it's like I love doing this, but I don't like doing this. I don't like being on camera.

01:41:33 - Michaela (Host)

Oh well, hopefully you were comfortable.

01:41:36 - Dr. Turner (Guest)

I'm very comfortable. It was very enjoyable and it went fast for gosh. It's only been 15 minutes. We've been talking Okay.

01:41:43 - Michaela (Host)

Where can people find you? Are people allowed to reach out to you? Can they find you?

01:41:49 - Dr. Turner (Guest)

I have a very low tech website network neural emf website.

01:41:57

Yeah, low emf, low tech. I mean I'll maintain it, but there's a way if people want to have like a mentoring session. I don't do health, telehealth, I don't practice neurology, except like when I'm doing the hospital stuff, the traditional in the matrix things. I I, it's on the list, I've got to upgrade this and make more active links and it just it hasn't been high on the list because I get so many people that hear about me or connect from different places around the world by word of mouth or colleagues that it's okay.

01:42:36 - Michaela (Host)

That's the way to be. That's the way to be. I have a whole media coordination business that doesn't even have a website because it's all just been word of mouth.

01:42:47 - Dr. Turner (Guest)

And, like you mentioned, environmental health trust websites that are good. Environmental health trust and related to that is the baby safe project.

01:42:58 - Michaela (Host)

What is the baby safe project? Because we didn't mention it on here what it was.

01:43:03 - Dr. Turner (Guest)

So, um, Dr. Taylor, I'll just do a quick share with you and we eventually we will finish by midnight, um. So babysafeproject.org is the name of the website and obviously it's geared towards pregnancy Baby Safe.

01:43:25 - Michaela (Host)

Yeah.

01:43:26 - Dr. Turner (Guest)

I point as many people as I can. They have wonderful resources. A lot of it is common sense, made plain, as you know, but at least getting people to think about it. And when we started this and we didn't, I didn't bring up the topic enough and I didn't bring up the topic enough. Kids, the developing child, from actually preconception but conception, intrauterine development one of the most amazing miracles in the universe and yet one of the times where we know about maternal trauma and how that affects the developing baby.

01:44:07

But where is all of our electromagnetic use? For the most part, how many people pregnant moms and things do you see there with their iPad or their phone? It's on their lap. It's right there, right next to the baby. Those babies are growing, developing electromagnetic miracles and that stuff gets affected. And I think that's partly to explain why there's so many more genetic anomalies not just because we're better at genetic testing and why there's so many more MRI abnormalities and so many more neurodevelopmental issues going on.

01:44:35

So it's a good they have the science with it. They have a joint statement that clinicians can sign. They have free materials, so it's not as a deep dive as Environmental Health Trust. I still recommend that one and then the other one is Physicians for Safe Technology. Come on and it's mdsaftech.org and it's put together by a clinician and a group and Dr Chamberlain is on that board as well. But it is an amazing source, a lot like Environmental Health Trust and really there's some overlap. But the literature, the categories, what you can find, the literature's there If people just want to look, instead of saying there's not that much literature on it, just like there's not that much literature that smoking's bad Topics are there and who the advisory board is, the people that are involved pretty amazing.

01:45:39 - Michaela (Host)

That's awesome.

01:45:40 - Dr. Turner (Guest)

And again, I'm not part of that. They let me graciously participate with their meetings every month, which is cool because you get to just listen and learn. But the literature, it's there. Policy, when you talk about the cell tower issues, small cell towers it's there as an incredible resource.

01:45:58

And that takes time. It's kind of a big deal, so I encourage those. There's others that I have in my handouts, but you got to start somewhere, small steps, and otherwise it's just like he gave me 14 websites to go to like yeah, yeah, all you have to do is sit down for an hour, and I mean you could sit down for a lifetime.

01:46:21 - Michaela (Host)

But I'm saying like to just mean with, to just get beyond the point of, oh well, we didn't know, there's not enough research and just sit down and look at what's being presented by all of these very legitimate researchers. It is not tinfoil hattie, I know that's not a right word, but I like tinfoil hattie. All right. Well, thank you so much, and hopefully we'll have you back soon. Okay To dive more if you're open to it. I know you don't love the.

01:46:54 - Dr. Turner (Guest)

I don't love that part, but I love interacting with people and trying to get people to be healthier, because I see there's just so much hurt.

01:47:07 - Michaela (Host)

Yeah.

01:47:07 - Dr. Turner (Guest)

So much suffering.

01:47:09 - Michaela (Host)

Yeah, I would love to do an episode in person someday. I hope we get to do that. That'd be awesome.